The Real Reason Working Moms Feel Burnt Out (According to an HR Expert)
The Real Reason Working Moms Feel Burnt Out (According to an HR Expert)
There’s a quiet tension that exists in almost every working mother’s life, and once you see it, you can’t unsee it. It’s not just the juggle of work and home. It’s not even the mental load we talk about so often. It’s the fact that working mothers are living inside two completely different systems at the same time… and those systems were never designed to work together.
On one side, there’s the corporate world, structured around quarterly targets, performance reviews and rigid expectations around time and productivity. On the other, there’s the school calendar, with its short terms, long holidays, unexpected sick days and moments that matter, like a school play or a sports match.
And somehow, mothers are expected to move seamlessly between the two.
In a recent conversation on The Moments Podcast, I sat down with HR specialist, Silke Rathbone, who works inside these systems every day. Not just as a professional, but as a mother of two herself. What emerged from that conversation wasn’t just validation, it was clarity.
Because according to someone on the inside, the problem isn’t that moms aren’t coping well enough. The problem is that the systems themselves don’t align.
The Gap Between Policy and Real Life
When I asked the MOMents community what they would ask HR if they could do it anonymously, the response was immediate and overwhelming. Within an hour, it was clear that this wasn’t a niche frustration, it was something almost every working mom feels but doesn’t always say out loud.
There is a real and persistent gap between what companies say they offer and what employees actually experience.
On paper, many organisations have made progress, particularly since the COVID-19 pandemic forced a global shift in how we work. Flexibility, hybrid models and remote work have become far more common. There is a growing emphasis on output over hours and many companies are actively trying to position themselves as “employers of choice.”
But as Silke explained, culture is not what exists in policy documents. Culture is what people feel safe doing.
And that’s where things start to unravel.
Because even in companies that technically allow flexibility, many mothers still hesitate to use it. Leaving early for a school event often comes with an unspoken pressure to compensate later. There is a lingering sense that flexibility must be earned or justified. Which raises an important question: if a policy exists, but employees don’t feel safe using it, does it really exist at all?
ALSO READ: Flexible Hours Aren’t Enough: The Real Secret to Mom-Friendly Workplaces
Why Trust Matters More Than Flexibility
One of the most powerful insights from this conversation was how much workplace dynamics shift when companies move from measuring time to measuring output.
In environments where performance is tied to hours spent online or visible at a desk, flexibility will always feel like a risk. But when performance is measured by deliverables, results and consistency, the conversation changes entirely.
Suddenly, it becomes less about when or where work happens, and more about whether it gets done.
From an HR perspective, this shift isn’t just philosophical, it’s practical. With the right systems and tools in place, companies can track performance in ways that remove ambiguity and reduce bias. But without those systems, decisions are often left to perception, and that’s where inconsistency creeps in.
ALSO READ: How Modern Working Moms Are Rewriting the Rules
The Hidden Influence of Managers
Even in organisations that promote flexibility, the day-to-day experience of employees often depends on one person: their manager. And this is where many well-intentioned policies fall apart.
Without clear frameworks, proper training and accountability, managers are left to interpret flexibility on their own. One might fully support a working parent’s needs, while another might subtly discourage it.
From Silke’s perspective, this inconsistency is not just a cultural issue, it’s a structural one. Without data, systems and standardised approaches, companies simply don’t have visibility into how policies are being applied.
Which means that for many mothers, flexibility is not a given. It’s a gamble.
Burnout Isn’t Just About Workload
We often talk about burnout as if it’s purely about doing too much. But what came through clearly in this conversation is that burnout is often about something deeper: the feeling that your life is out of balance and that you are constantly being forced to choose.
For working mothers, that choice shows up in subtle, but significant ways. It’s in the decision to use annual leave to care for a sick child, knowing it means sacrificing real rest later. It’s in the long days that begin before your children wake up and end after they’ve gone to bed. It’s in the constant negotiation between being present at work and present at home, and never quite feeling like you’re succeeding at either.
Over time, that tension becomes unsustainable.
And according to Silke, this is exactly why more flexible and hybrid working models aren’t just “nice to have.” They are essential in preventing burnout before it leads to resignation.
ALSO READ: Working Mom Burnout: How to Let Go of Constant Busyness
The Two Calendars Problem
At the heart of it all is a structural mismatch that no amount of personal time management can fix. Corporate life runs on a continuous, predictable cycle. School life does not.
This creates a recurring problem: parents are forced to use their limited annual leave to cover school holidays, leaving little to no time for actual rest. The system assumes that leave is used for recovery, but for many parents, it becomes a tool for survival.
Some companies are beginning to rethink this by introducing more flexible types of leave or expanding definitions around family responsibility. But as Silke pointed out, these changes are still not widespread and in many cases, policies remain outdated and out of step with modern family life.
ALSO READ: Career Changes for Working Moms: Putting Family First
The Career Trade-Off No One Wants to Admit
There is another layer to this conversation that is harder to confront.
Even when two employees perform at the same level, the one perceived as more “available” is often seen as the safer choice for promotion. In other words, the mom with more responsibilities at home, does not get promoted.
This doesn’t always happen consciously. In fact, it often happens in environments where performance isn’t clearly measured and decisions are made based on instinct or perception rather than data.
From an HR standpoint, the solution is not to ignore the issue, but to design systems that reduce subjectivity. When performance is tracked consistently and transparently, it becomes much harder for bias to influence outcomes.
But without those systems, the burden once again falls on the individual and in many cases, that individual is a mother trying to prove her commitment.
Why There Is Still Reason for Hope
Despite the challenges, there is a sense that things are shifting and not just slowly.
The rise of global companies, particularly in markets like South Africa, is introducing new expectations around flexibility, benefits and performance management. Local companies are being forced to adapt, not just to attract talent, but to retain it.
And perhaps most importantly, conversations like these are happening more openly than ever before.
From an HR perspective, one of the most powerful things employees can do is simply start the conversation. Not through long emails or frustration, but through honest, constructive dialogue. Because meaningful change rarely starts at the policy level, it starts with people being willing to say, “This isn’t working. How can we do better?”
What this conversation makes clear is that working mothers are not the problem. They are navigating systems that were never designed with them in mind. But those systems are not fixed. They are evolving, slowly, imperfectly, but undeniably.
And when organisations get it right, the results speak for themselves. Supporting mothers doesn’t reduce productivity. It strengthens it. It builds loyalty, resilience and long-term performance.
In other words, it’s not just the right thing to do. It’s smart business.
Watch the full episode:
0:00
Navigating the Dual Calendars of Working Moms
Welcome to the Moments podcast, where moms get honest conversations, support, and the community to help you thrive at work and at home.
Working mothers are literally existing in 2 completely different calendars at once, the corporate calendar and the school calendar, and they don’t overlap.
0:20
I asked on the Moment WhatsApp channel if mums could ask HR anything anonymously, and by the amount of responses I received within an hour, I knew I struck a nerve and that there’s clearly a gap between policy and reality.
0:36
So today we’re asked.
We’re not asking how moms can cope better.
We’re asking if and how these two systems can better coexist.
It’s an honest conversation about whether the rules serve the people and if our two worlds can become one.
1:08
I’m joined by Soca Rathburn, an HR specialist who sits on the inside of these systems.
As a mom of two, she completely understands the tension between company policy and the reality.
Welcome, Soccer.
1:24
Speaker 2
I’m mad lovely to be here.
1:28
Speaker 1
I want to start our conversation on a positive note because some of the topics feels quite heavy.
So from an outsider perspective, especially post COVID, it looks like a lot of companies do understand the juggle struggle and they have more sympathy and they offer more flexibility.
1:52
Is this what you’re also experiencing with your clients?
1:58
Speaker 2
Yeah.
Didn’t you think post COVID there was a shift in in a lot of companies realising that, you know, employees could actually work productively from home, which was incredible to see.
I think before COVID it was completely different.
2:17
And I think a lot of companies are and it’s actually in the past year, I would say ohh, really striving to, to become employers of choice.
And one of the aspects, you know, in order to be employee of choice is also creating a flexible working environment and much more focus on, on on measuring performance and output than than clockwatching, if I can put it that way.
2:45
The Shift in Corporate Culture Post-COVID
Obviously there are some companies I have no interest in doing that, but I would say these, yeah, there’s, there’s different community shift.
2:56
Speaker 1
That’s a good to ya.
And I think although the change was quite rapid during COVID and even after that, it slowed down a bit.
And I think the important thing is to still notice that there are companies who definitely strive to be more accommodating.
3:17
Yeah.
So now the question is, on paper, some companies might be very accommodating and they allow all these things, but when it comes to actually leaving early for a sports match or a school play or whatever the case may be, yeah.
3:40
How some parents still feel guilty or that do you get the instruction to make up the hours?
How does HR help build this culture of trust?
3:53
Speaker 2
So I’m, I’m, I, I always say culture is, is not what you have on paper.
Culture is something that a staff or employee feels right.
So it’s a feeling of of this is actually a working environment that is safe.
4:11
Together with that, I’m a huge fan of having really strong policies and processes in place and also using technology and HR platforms.
And why I’m saying that is for instance, you know, if you, if you are measuring output and performance via let’s say HR platform, it shouldn’t matter to you whether the employee is going to fetch their dog or watching a play like it shouldn’t be.
4:43
Ohh, you’re amazing for allowing you to do this, right.
It should be your weekly target or after this is the following.
So whether you’re doing it by 2:00 and you go to the play and you’ll finish it later on, obviously except disease like a deadline or something you know by a specific time.
5:03
But I think it’s about the lens and creating a framework where in store feel safe to, to, to do that and that it isn’t, um, later on, okay, you should have worked this.
5:21
It should be like, did you complete what you were supposed to complete?
Yeah.
5:27
Speaker 1
Jace, I get you.
Yeah, I feel like trust is such an important thing, yeah, because the company trusts that you have their interests at heart, but so does the employee, so.
5:42
Building a Culture of Trust in the Workplace
You.
You.
5:43
Speaker 1
Just spoke about HR tools.
How does a organization measure commitment and performance beyond time spent in front of a laptop?
5:55
Speaker 2
So a lot of where I have gotten a clock, a company that I would say is clock watching to actually move to Arford based is, is a if they have the right policies in place and processes and if they are able to make decisions based on data.
6:16
So platforms like IBOB, Zoho people, you know, you, you, you measuring the staff members output and deliverables and not whether the staff member was the 4-8 hours.
And I think that’s the key was only once HR internally is able to sit with leads that I see and see O and say hey, you know mage, this is magic like pull that data of Madge’s performance, then Co is most likely not gonna key with the mad was the five or eight hours if Madge is performing.
6:55
But what often happens is that the companies don’t have those tools in place.
They still old school in the sense of they go on feeling and like, you know, hours.
But I feel like sometimes once they’ve tried that and they have the right tools in place, they often are like, wow, this is incredible to be able to, you know, actually measure performance and not just with the Madge was in the office.
7:24
Speaker 1
Yeah, but many organisations claim to be flexible, but then it so often boils down to a specific manager or someone in charge.
7:37
Measuring Performance Beyond Clock Watching
How are these managers held accountable when flexibility exists in policy but it’s not supported in practice?
7:48
Speaker 2
So I think, um, once again, a lot of the companies you have the privilege mentality haven’t actually tried it K all They tried it, but they didn’t have the right processes or or tools, meaning HR like a platform to back the trial.
8:11
So they just feel like they’ve lost control and then they revoke the privilege, but they didn’t do the whole process correctly.
Think we’re managers often make different decisions is if there’s actually not a standardised approach.
8:28
So with flexibility it it should be staff should fill the policy is fair, it’s everyone knows what the framework is and then I think managers feel more comfortable making that decision.
8:44
I think you get that unfairness with the basics haven’t been put into place.
You can actually track with the system to see how many times flexibility, for instance, has declined and you can say it was okay.
Why have you declined?
9:02
You know, managers flexibility for all these occasions and but I also think it often happens when managers actually don’t buy into the bigger vision of it.
9:17
So I think it starts off with a company saying, listen, we wonder if we’ve got 5K PA for our year, for example, one is being an employer of choice, right?
9:28
The Role of HR in Supporting Flexibility
So in order to do that, you need to make sure that you know yourself and your team that that policies are consistently applied.
So I think it’s a you need to be able to know what the managers are doing because very often I think HR, the internal edge actually doesn’t know that’s happening.
9:49
Speaker 1
So it all boils down to good communication data and just being consistent.
10:00
Speaker 2
From system consistent and and manages, you know, some companies just literally years of flexibility policy, but the managers actually don’t get the right training.
What’s never workshopped or systems implemented and and stuff even manages or sometimes to skate to say hey, I actually don’t know how this thing works.
10:22
So it’s about when you do do something and let’s say it’s flexibility to it, probably from policy to workshop to implement to system, um, taste we something goes wrong, gate feedback, do surveys, ask managers, you know, I see you’ve declined twice.
10:41
Why?
But I think it’s very difficult for HR to pick up those things if there’s no system or policy supporting it as a framework.
Yeah, yeah.
10:56
Speaker 1
So one of the moms asked if HR is there to protect the company or the people, which I thought was quite an interesting question.
And I I believe the answer is both.
Yeah, but does HR actively track burnout and emotional labour for working parents?
11:16
Or can organisations intervene earlier, before burnout actually ends up in resignation?
11:24
Speaker 2
So I think, um, I always say, you know, being an Angel is a is like a cooling because you really need to be a very fair, consistent and constantly have two hats on.
11:41
So and, and I think so the the short answer both because you should be saying, okay, is what the company is proposing fee.
Is it being consistently applied?
And if it isn’t, being able to say you know the employees correct in this scenario and rectifying it.
11:59
So I think it should be both.
I know it isn’t always.
I think some staff members think HR is appointed by the company and they simply do with the company one thing to do.
12:12
Addressing Burnout and Emotional Labor
In that scenario, you don’t have a good culture because that HR should feel comfortable enough to say to Co, you know, what we’re doing isn’t right or this isn’t fair.
Um, yeah.
Then in terms of burnout, I think the honest answer is no.
12:31
I don’t think a lot of HR tracking it.
I think at this point it’s very reactive instead of proactive.
I think there has been a much bigger drive towards Wellness in the past year or two, especially post post COVID.
12:52
And but for me, I think Bernard, you know, having Wellness program, so stop assuming.
It’s obviously great, right?
But for me, Bernard happens when someone feels like they balance isn’t right in their life.
13:09
So for me that links back to our first point in terms of hybrid working models, flexibility.
And that’s part of Bernard.
That’s why a lot of people end up resigning because they feel like they’re not spending enough time with their child or they’re actually not exercising, which impacts mental health.
13:28
So using that time you would have sat in traffic to actually, um, exercise all feature child.
And I think in that way you are ensuring that stuff don’t feel like you’re like soft, don’t feel like they have to choose because that’s what happens is mom and dad ends up being like, listen, I just can’t leave 7:00 in the morning, come back at 7.
13:57
Like I’ve only had six actually productive hours in the office.
You know, such a waste of time.
We if you’re able to bring in hybrid and flexibility, I feel like you’ll burnout will be less because people feel like they have balance.
14:17
Speaker 1
Yeah, you said something interesting.
And it’s like that happens when you have to choose, which is more or less what I tried to say at the beginning about the 2 worlds and we’re trying to have them coexist.
We And that brings me to my question about the 2 calendars.
14:34
And the one is the corporate world runs on a 12 month cycle, but the school calendar doesn’t.
14:42
Bridging the Gap Between Corporate and School Calendars
Is it possible for companies to bridge this gap without mothers and fathers having to sacrifice all their annual leave just to cover school holidays?
14:53
Speaker 2
You know, I think it’s a difficult one because on the one side, once again, putting on both hats, you know, company perspective often is, listen, it’s you, your leave.
You decide when you want to use it, right?
15:09
Um, HR specific perspective would often be your wide what is leave, Therefore leaves there to actually rest and to come back more product.
So what ends up happening is like if let’s say a working mom uses that leave during school holiday, she’s just exhausted.
15:29
Let’s be honest, it’s very hard work.
It’s not really.
15:34
Speaker 1
No.
15:36
Speaker 2
So I think a middle ground once again, if the the type of rule allows it would be to say listen, and you’re gonna hear me.
I’m about like chop platforms.
But it’s really the future.
I think a good HR needs to have that that data at their fingertips.
15:56
And with that is, for instance, in saying, OK, managed, let’s plan and, and a strong manager saying let’s plan out the year and looking more I would say and not seeing as school holidays as having to take leave, but leads.
16:13
Do you like workforce planning or let’s plan out the projects in a way that in that period you still have deliverables, but it’s.
16:23
Speaker 1
More.
16:24
Speaker 2
Doable in that period you just a bit more better planning and obviously there’s always last minute projects or stuff that does come up, but I do think very often it’s just that there isn’t planning of those period.
16:43
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think many people also feel like they they can’t ask for more because because of the guilt, they feel like asking for more annual leave days or asking for more flexibility during those periods where the kids don’t go to school.
17:03
It’s it’s very hard to communicate, but if HR actually supports it and encourages it, that would make such a big difference.
17:16
Speaker 2
You know, and I think that’s why I’m, I’m a huge fan of, of hybrid and flexibility because it shouldn’t only be whether it’s school holiday, it should be your child is sick.
17:30
Flexibility and Family Responsibility Leave
And so I got many questions about children being sick and not having a backup plan.
And so many companies do still require that parents take annual leave when the kids are sick.
17:46
And sometimes especially I found when my kids were much smaller and Sterling crash the the 15 annual leave days, I had certainly that uncovered the sick days.
And then I that that would made no holiday at all for the rest of the year.
18:07
Yeah.
So how realistic is this policy, given that most working moms, like I say, don’t have a backup plan, and they sometimes even send the kids back to school while they’re still sick just to protect their leave?
18:24
So is flexibility and hybrid the answer?
Yeah.
Or should they?
Should that’s 15 days be relooked?
18:33
Speaker 2
So I think to start off with it says leaves very low in comparison to the rest of the world.
So I actually did my mosses in human rights and one of my subjects was women’s rights.
18:49
I’ll leave with its with its sick with its annual is extremely low in comparison and very, I would say stringent in comparison to let’s say Europe.
Um, so I think the amount, yes.
19:08
And I think that is definitely something I’m seeing with that stuff when they’re in the position to negotiate or move or often move simply full more leave.
So leave is the more is now the new knowledge if it’s the word commodity, but you know someone move all and and this is like the exciting first 2-3 years.
19:35
Rethinking Leave Policies for Modern Families
I have had some companies who actually have created new sub type of leaves so you still have your annual budget.
For instance, a family responsibility leave was increased and to a larger amount, which because the whole maternity and has changed to shade parental leave.
20:00
They’ve they’ve said they’ve increased that amount and some companies have implemented self-care leave as well, which is interesting.
Well, I think it’s about looking at and once again being able to pull their dates and see what is our absenteeism, what is our, our leave.
20:20
And anyway, and what I’ve said to a lot of companies is that the definition of family responsibility leave is way too narrow in South Africa.
Firstly, um, it should have a much broader definition.
20:36
How cultural context, you know, is much broader than that definition because at this moment, someone might be living with someone and if that person passes away, they contain that person’s funeral, which is absurd.
So yeah, I’m a lot of companies are actually creating completely opening up the definition, saying, listen, employees, you have X amount per year.
20:59
We trust you to use it wisely.
You don’t have to submit the doctor’s note or the, you know, death certificate, for example.
Use it if it’s finished, just finished in that way.
And then you would need to go into annual.
21:17
But yeah, I would say it’s differently really looking the different type of leaves and not just sticking to what the act prescribes these you can be very creative.
21:28
Speaker 1
That makes so much sense and it’s so encouraging to hear that companies are looking into it because I feel like when you look at what’s on paper, sometimes it expects us to not have a life outside of the office at all.
21:45
Ensuring Fairness in Promotions and Opportunities
And so Silky is another one and it’s probably another impossible question to answer.
Ohh.
Employees perform equally well, but one requires flexibility due to family responsibility.
How do you ensure that they are treated equally or fairly in the hiring, promotions and career opportunities, especially if there’s still an underlying assumption that mothers are too unavailable?
22:16
Like when you’re sitting with those two CVS or it’s people you’ve been working with and you know them well and you know both of them are great for this promotion.
How do companies do this in a fairway?
22:30
Speaker 2
Yo, it’s a difficult one because I think in reality, I don’t think it comes to play so much in the hiring, but it does very much come, you know, happen in, in promotions.
Once there are two employees, you know who, um, you know, companies who decide which one is promoted.
22:52
Obviously companies would create like criteria as to what what they’re measuring their performance or promotion against.
And so I think, um, probably the most fairest way we are see companies making or looking at that aspect the most is when it’s more a company who does things informally.
23:20
Creating Open Conversations with HR
So, so this year goes on on a, on an aspect that don’t have performance reviews, they don’t have, you know, get Pi, they don’t have a platform that’s tracking this.
It’s a feeling of it’s, it’s very subjective, then 100% that that kind of weighs more like the one and it’s in the back of their mind.
23:44
They sometimes don’t even realise it themselves when they’re making the decision.
We are feel if it’s if, if a HR, if you have a strong HR department that’s actually created all of these platforms and processes that I’ve I’ve said and, and the edge was able to say you’ve got these two, you know, with the, you know, in terms of performance, it’s the same.
24:08
Well, or whether or not this one has a flexible day.
She’s actually more productive all years.
So I think it’s very often we, it’s more of a informal approach to HR.
Then the subjectivity creeps in a bit more.
24:25
Yeah.
24:26
Speaker 1
That’s um, that’s such a hard thing to face.
I think so many people feel like they’re in a dead end because they have kids.
I’ve even heard moms saying they were chatting about a sibling who never had kids or don’t on.
24:44
I’m not going to go that route.
And she’s like, ohh, she was the clever one.
She never had kids.
And I feel that just breaks my heart because no mum should feel like that because she chose to have kids.
She shouldn’t feel like her sibling is treated in a different way just because she chose to be a mother.
25:06
Like I have regrets, professional regrets, because of her children.
25:11
Speaker 2
You’re and it is.
I mean, it happens so often, it really does.
Um, and I think you’re like icy.
I think the, the, this we, that happens the most is we, there’s just too much decision making lies with sometimes even the person who’s making the decision is removed from, um, isn’t actually even the person that’s managed these two employees, you know, it’s actually the incorrect person deciding on the promotion And, and that’s subjectivity.
25:51
You know, it’s like a feeling of this person is very hard working.
But I think it comes back to the culture of, of the company.
If it is a culture of let’s see who can stay at the office as many hours as possible while the person who doesn’t have children is gonna get it just because of the culture.
26:12
Hope for the Future of Work for Moms
But if there’s a culture of I don’t care what you are, what you doing, all you’re performing or not, then the chances of that playing a role is less.
So I think culture, um, young, lazy YouTube, church and, and just the openness of, of the top management and being open to, to change and changing things.
26:40
Speaker 1
OK.
So I want to steer our conversation back to something more positive.
Yeah, so for a mum who wants to have an open conversation with her HR manager or her company, what is the best approach to have or to open the conversation with the people in charge?
27:09
Like where does she start?
27:13
Speaker 2
Um, with regards to something specific, so let’s say holiday planning.
27:21
Speaker 1
Yeah, like I feel like so many people maybe view HR as the enemy, and I don’t think that’s the right way to approach it.
Like what is the right approach to have conversations for change?
27:38
Speaker 2
So I think you should be like a trial should be some someone who you are willing to approach, right.
And I’m, I always say to employees, don’t put something on WhatsApp or e-mail, go to the HR person and talk in person because you can verbalise much better what what you’re trying to say.
28:06
So it should be a safe space.
I’ve had, you know, we starve.
Listen, super interesting stuff.
And it should be with like Hazel girl, you know, I’ve I’ve had this idea and and you know, I think, you know, these some feelings about certain as we can you maybe do an employee survey that’s anonymous.
28:30
So you, you provide tools or aspects which staff can feel safe to actually say what they want to say.
Because I think that’s what the most impressive skill of is that retaliation of Hey, I’ve seen something and now I’m going to be victimised in a way.
28:48
So I think the HR should be the ones that, you know, okay, this is maybe, um, you know, that’s so let’s say workforce planning during school holidays.
Is that something that three people are really passionate about?
29:05
Leads to a survey?
Let’s find out how many people, um, you know, value this and then how do we actually do we have the tools to make that a reality?
Um, but I think you’re just first addressing stuff in person.
29:26
And I think where things go wrong as when I’ve, you know, you receive this long e-mail and the tone and everything is, is, is wrong.
We, if it is, hey, we want to improve things at the company, then I think the edge was approach is always like awesome, like tell me how we can improve.
29:53
And I think, um, in the ideal world, like HR should also be more proactive in the sense, you know, you should be wanting feedback from employees.
30:09
You should be wanting to, like I said, ask what do you see as a benefit and not just keep on giving the same benefits for 20 years because you think that’s what staff want.
30:21
Speaker 1
Cause I think the traditional benefits were all thought out before they were so many women in the workforce.
Like they all like pension and medical aid and those, like I said, traditional ones are all stuff that men want. 50 years ago that staff may need it because they had the support at home.
30:44
Yes.
But it’s it’s time to rethink and unlearn a lot of those old fashioned ways of doing it.
30:51
Speaker 2
Yeah.
And I think ohh, Sir, like obviously you need to have a guideline for benefits and you can’t have a different for each person.
But I do think I’ve had big companies say, listen, if I, if my home situation is we’ve already got medicated, I don’t want medical aid, but actually additional 5000 Rand and because I pay the school fees will go a long way, you know, but now you’re forced into taking that medical because, you know, a double pension.
31:26
So I think that’s we staff really feel appreciated if if it’s not just this is how it’s going to be and it’s always going to be like this.
And a very often what happens is a really valuable staff member will move to a different company, will resign, and then Rachel will say, well, why?
31:46
And then they’ll say, well, I’m getting 22 days instead of 15, you know?
So I think it’s your just being proactive and not waiting until exit interview phase um before trying to keep someone um.
32:08
Speaker 1
Yeah, is it makes so much.
32:10
Speaker 2
Sense and surveys, right, like police surveys is so valuable.
Once again, you can actually pull that data and see.
32:20
Speaker 1
So last question, 4 moms listening, what hope can you honestly offer them about the future of work?
32:31
Speaker 2
I think I’m actually really excited, more than I ever had have been about the future of work, especially in South Africa.
I think recovered, I think we were very behind in the sense of you know flexibility hybrid I think in South Africa, I think what I’m seeing is a lot of international companies are actually moving offices or or starting offices in South Africa, which kind of has in certain markets forced local companies to be more forward thinking because they bringing in a lot like a large or a much proud of move forward thinking policies and benefits.
33:21
So local companies are having to compete more with that all, you know, companies.
33:27
Speaker 1
That up.
33:29
Speaker 2
Yes.
So I definitely think there’s a huge drive in terms of measuring performance instead of just time more than it’s ever, ever been.
Yeah, like I think also, you know, when when interviewing like make it, I love it when candidates are very honest and from and especially as a mum to say, listen, I do have two children and you know, I I really would like to work two days a week from home or and three days in the office.
34:09
Is that a possibility?
Because often the client is willing to say, yes, let’s do that.
But if if the person’s too shy to ask in the interview and to say like how they feel, you’re not gonna get it.
34:26
So I think women and general just have to speak up more and ask because with regards to everything like, yeah, don’t not us, because then you don’t know whether you would have been able and if a company looked negatively on you for wanting flexibility, it’s not the right company for you.
34:52
And I promise you, if that, if they’re not open to that and that is something you feel better is not going to be a a connection with multiple other stuff.
Yeah.
35:04
Speaker 1
Yeah, that makes so much sense.
35:07
Speaker 2
Yeah, just be upfront.
35:09
Speaker 1
Sulka, thank you so, so much for joining me today.
I feel like our conversation was so meaningful and hopeful and encouraging.
And although in South Africa and many other places in the world we still have a long way to go, they are definitely little rays of sun coming through the clouds that keep all of us hope.
35:35
Speaker 2
Definitely, definitely.
Thank you, Madge.
It’s always a pleasure.
And yeah, spending time with you and love having these conversations.
35:48
Speaker 1
Although the changes we discussed are not universal yet, or the fact that change is slow, it still happening.
And there is hope Takes Olga’s advice.
And speak to your age or manager about what you need.
Open conversations can make a big difference.
36:06
If this episode resonated with you, share it with another mom who needs to hear it.
And if you’re in a leadership or age opposition, maybe it’s the nudge to examine the gap between policy and culture because the reality is that when mothers are supported properly, organisations don’t lose productivity, they gain loyalty, resilience and efficiency.
36:29
And that’s just smart business.
Thanks for joining us.
I’ll see you next time.
Also available on Spotify and Apple Podcasts
RELATED READS:
Why Working Moms Make the Best Hires
Why Working Moms Make the Best Leaders
Can Women Really Have It All? The Honest Truth Working Moms Rarely Hear