0:00

Speaker 1

So you know when you greet someone and you say hello, how are you?

And the other person responds and says I’m good, how are you?

That’s been human interaction 101 for centuries.

I mean our kids are taught that in pre school but it’s changed.

0:19

That’s not how we actually greet each other anymore.

There’s been a additional line added to the age-old greeting.

Nowadays we say hello how are you?

And the other person responds and says I’m good thanks I’m just so busy.

0:38

And the other person then responds and says yes I hear you I’m also so busy it’s been mad.

And then the real kicker for extra perfect you don’t understand.

Listen babe, we understand.

0:54

We’re all busy.

We’re all so incredibly busy.

We’re report to each other how we are running around and how our calendars are over full.

Let’s take a minute to imagine the opposite.

Imagine someone says hello, how are you?

1:12

And in an unmedicated calmness, you respond and say, I’m so good, I’ve got so much free time.

And the person look at you like you’ve gone insane because they know you haven’t given your children away or quit your job.

1:28

And they say, how?

And you say, I don’t accept meetings unless there’s a very detailed agenda circulated.

And none of those could have been an e-mail.

And I only accept birthday party invitations on Saturday mornings to Createspace for family time.

1:46

And family time means no distractions, disconnected watching the clouds or the stars.

And I’ve minimised extramural activities for my kids to 1 per child per week to Createspace in the afternoons for chatting and connecting.

2:05

How radical.

If all of that sounded like a lot of nonsense and you’ve never heard something more unrealistic and unattainable, well done.

You’re not alone.

And that’s exactly why we need to talk about it.

I’m Edge, your host, and this is Moments.

2:35

The busy mom narrative is so ingrained in our culture, we wear it like a badge of honour.

Today I’m sharing a few moments with Elmarie Dirksen.

She’s a pastor and author and a musician.

2:50

The most talented musician I’ve ever seen.

She’s a mum of three children, 1 biological and two bonuses.

They are almost all grown up and according to her, she thinks she’s made it.

Well done.

It’s more than I can say.

3:07

Almarie, welcome and thanks for joining us today.

3:10

Speaker 2

Ohh, thank you Match.

Thank you for inviting me.

3:13

Speaker 1

We’re talking about why the hassle culture has become our default setting and how we can break free from it.

So Emily, why do you think, especially for moms, do we feel just need to constantly be busy?

Do you think it’s because we feel like we need to prove our worth to the world?

3:34

Speaker 2

Yes, I think you’re right.

I think it’s just true.

We have lots to do, so we have lots to do.

It’s just true.

We have this low key anxiety that I think working with youth I’ve picked up has been escalating for the last decade or so.

3:56

Definitely.

We have this anxiety that we have to equip our children and to to win.

Yeah.

And to be the best and to find a spot in the world, to find a place in the sun and to be able to look after themselves.

4:14

We have that same anxiety.

So I actually want to blame corporations.

It’s all money and we have to fight for our little spot.

So we really have a lot to do.

It’s true.

But I think and yes, of course they will then feel that we have to prove our worth, but I also think we don’t seemed carefully to our thought processes.

4:36

So it’s easier to just keep going.

Yeah, it’s it’s really hard to slow down.

It’s sometimes.

4:43

Speaker 1

Amazes me when I do sit for a few quiet moments what surfaces and I think that’s why we scared to actually do.

4:51

Speaker 2

It exactly.

4:53

Speaker 1

Yeah, so in a fast-paced world where we literally have full time jobs, we do the school run, we make the lunch boxes and dinner and homework and laundry, the never ending laundry.

Like you say, we are really, really busy.

5:10

But what does race actually look like in such a routine?

5:15

Speaker 2

They all, I do think, especially when one’s kids are small, we accept that rest happens in pockets.

In little pockets.

You know, when when I first told my sister my baby slept through the night.

5:30

Yeah, she’s like one night.

No, please don’t get excited.

No, it’s it’s not necessarily to be repeated.

No, I I do think we all accept that rest happens in small pockets when you have smaller children especially.

5:49

But also I think what’s what’s changed has changed in my mind.

I tell myself when I race that I’m doing something.

I’m doing something really important.

6:00

Speaker 1

I love that that works for me.

I love that the hustle culture has a big impact.

It does come with a cost of always being busy and never actually taking time to reset.

6:16

What would the cost be in your opinion?

Like if we look at our relationships and our kids and ourselves.

6:25

Speaker 2

No.

And it’s been quite a journey for me as well with this being a performer.

And it was when I was younger, quite important to me to prove myself.

6:41

But I do think that relationships remind us that it’s quite natural to be silent and peaceful and calm.

You can get nothing done with the nervous system that’s all over the place.

6:57

So I think that’s of course it’s we pay the price in relationships because it’s harder to connect when you’re not gone.

But the biggest price I’ve paid is, is my inner life.

So I had to step out of it and just do an alternative from time to time to really concentrate on shutting everything off.

7:19

Speaker 1

Always being busy also takes its toll on us, like not just mentally but emotionally and physically too.

7:27

Speaker 2

Yeah, I think we step into a trap and become perfectionists.

I’ve seen there’s so many times.

I know you too with moms especially and, and in my mind, we kind of believe a lie.

7:43

We, we believe what we see in media and social media and we, we believe the mosques that other people wear.

We think their homes and their families look like TV programs or whatever or movies.

And then we we tend to push away support, like if someone else doesn’t clean the kitchen the way I want it to be cleaned, or if someone doesn’t change a diaper the way I want it to be changed, then I have to do everything myself.

8:15

And it takes a bit of humility to also exceed help and not be so perfectionistic and to go with the flow.

This is a team.

8:23

Speaker 1

Effort.

Yeah.

That’s so profound.

You know, I can relate to that so much because I definitely also pushed away help from people who actually had the best intentions.

Yeah.

Because it wasn’t done in a way that or what will it say from me if people know I didn’t do this myself?

8:43

Or what will my kids think if I’m not there with them, doing everything with them for them all the time?

Yeah.

So I definitely fell into that trap.

8:55

Speaker 2

I think some somewhere I just broke.

It wasn’t dramatic or anything, but I think I just decided I don’t care what people think anymore and that set me free.

9:08

Speaker 1

That’s amazing.

So I don’t think a lot of us can say that.

9:12

Speaker 2

Just made me much more pragmatic.

Things just have to work.

It doesn’t have to be perfect.

Yeah, we just have to survive and love each other and be in peace and get to the next day.

9:26

Speaker 1

That’s so fabulous.

I read a quote this week that said choose harmony, not perfection.

Yes.

And that resonated with me on such a deep level.

9:37

Speaker 2

So beautiful.

Yeah.

How many is really important to me, But I think family life is the space where it’s hardest for.

9:44

Speaker 1

Us all those different personalities you know 1 little pressure cooker.

9:49

Speaker 2

And the perfectionism makes us controlling as well.

You have to let go of control because we think that’s what it what’s expected of moms and of women and of you.

10:01

Speaker 1

Know you want your children to act in a certain way or yeah dress in a certain way or react if I think about sports and loss you know when the when the.

10:14

Speaker 2

Winning and losing they.

10:15

Speaker 1

Cry next to the sport field and you’re like, can you just calm yourself down?

We want to control even the little emotions and disappointments and it doesn’t work like.

10:28

Speaker 2

That life is messy.

10:30

Speaker 1

It’s so messy like Arthur to carry my son off a sports field crying hysterically because they lost a match.

Ohh and to me it’s like public humiliation.

What are you doing to me?

But for him, it’s like a really intense moment.

10:47

Speaker 2

And it was probably a learning moment.

It was quite an important learning moment, yeah.

So having you to comfort him is the most important thing to me.

Yeah.

10:56

Speaker 1

I should have just stayed there with him because everyone was moving away, but I walked with the crowd, which was very stupid.

The lessons we learn.

11:07

Speaker 2

The lessons we learn.

No.

It’s such a pity we don’t learn them before We have to prove we’ve learned them.

We learn them while it’s happening.

Yeah.

Yeah.

11:17

Speaker 1

So reimagining racist and doing it in little pockets.

I love that you made that analogy.

Is going to the supermarket by yourself a break or is your drive to work in traffic?

11:35

Is that your mean time?

Is that the way we should like reorganise our thoughts?

11:40

Speaker 2

I don’t know maybe if that works for you, if that works for you, do that I would.

I’m going to comment in two ways on this question of yours.

I think in small pockets.

I mean, a minute of silence is best is better than no silence.

12:02

So there’s this woman, Martha Beck.

She writes Amazing.

12:06

Speaker 1

Books she was on.

12:07

Speaker 2

Oprah Yeah, yeah.

And she’s also a mum and and she wrote this book called The Joy Diet.

It’s not about a diet, it’s about joy.

And she says that while it is true in in any spirituality, in any mode, in any nervous system form, in any culture, silence and peace is natural.

12:30

And you cannot have a life if you cannot be silent.

And then she says even if you have to set a timer, you have to do it start with one minute.

But if you can be silent for 10 minutes a day, and then the first question to ask yourself is why am I avoiding being silent and then letting those.

12:53

And all the joy in our lives comes from connect connections, connecting with ourselves inside, connecting with.

And so I think that’s really important.

A small pocket of silence is better than no silence.

If you feel that you can’t do a meditation session or a yoga or go to the gym or to the spa for a whole day, a minute of silence and peace with yourself is also meaningful.

13:20

And, um, reimagining.

Ohh.

I firmly believe in brain candy.

Maybe that’s just me.

OK, but half an hour of a sitcom that you love?

Ohh yeah.

With your hubby or your wife, or a round of Candy Crush.

13:36

Yeah, while the world is crashing down around you.

Or a walk down around the rugby field while the kids are doing their sports just to breathe.

That’s also a pocket of racist.

But you need to be present in the moment, otherwise it won’t.

13:50

Speaker 1

Just still recognise.

Yeah, yeah, call it.

You have to call its name.

Yeah.

While you’re doing it, Yeah.

Yeah, we call it with buffering our brains.

You know, like when your computer is doing the little thing and it’s just buffering, OK, watching mindless TV, like we just buffering our brains for a birth.

14:10

Speaker 2

And your body needs that as.

14:12

Speaker 1

Well, yeah, and not having constant thoughts.

14:16

Speaker 2

Absolutely.

I find when I when I keep my my logical brain busy with sudoku or whatever, then I’m processing a lot of stuff in the back.

But you have to also notice these things.

So what are my processing while I’m doing nothing now?

14:31

Or even while doing the dishes.

Ohh yeah where are my thoughts going to?

14:37

Speaker 1

Yeah, I love that.

Yeah, that’s so true.

So there’s a lot of people and on social media saying you have to fill your own cup 1st.

And for a long time, I thought this was so inspirational, but I came to a point where I kind of rolled my eyes at people telling me to follow my cup first.

14:58

Because if you don’t have the support or necessarily the money to always fill your cup in special and profound ways, what does that even mean?

Filling your cup?

15:11

Speaker 2

I don’t know mate.

15:13

Speaker 1

I.

15:13

Speaker 2

Agree with you.

I think that’s also one of those perfectionist ideas.

Yeah, I.

15:21

Speaker 1

Feel like a lot of people latched onto this concept.

True.

And it’s perfect in on on in theory, yeah.

It’s like the best thing to tell someone who you like this close to a nervous breakdown or something like you need time to fill your cup.

15:36

But I mean.

15:38

Speaker 2

I think look, it’s it’s obviously true for parents most of the time, maybe parents.

My mom always says that you’re just when you’re flying high and you’re achieving in your job and you feel like you’re the most beautiful version of yourself in your life.

15:53

Then you have kids, and then you become humble again.

15:56

Speaker 1

You’re very humble.

15:58

Speaker 2

So, so maybe, maybe that’s part of it.

But, and, and I love it.

I love it that it’s what happens.

I think it’s part of our human experience.

But maybe then we have to acknowledge and accept.

16:14

That’s a word that I have used on my child a lot when growing up.

Okay, we have to accept reality now.

Accept what happens.

Let’s move on.

And now he’s old enough to use it on me.

16:24

Speaker 1

Ohh.

16:24

Speaker 2

Yeah, except Mother.

This is what’s happening now.

But I think that’s the thing with you have to accept that you, you probably won’t have a good night’s rest.

Yeah, like you did in college.

16:39

Speaker 1

Yeah, for a few years, 11 a yeah.

16:42

Speaker 2

You won’t be completely rested and the best version of yourself everyday for a few years, and that’s also okay.

16:50

Speaker 1

Yeah.

16:50

Speaker 2

Accept it’s okay.

16:53

Speaker 1

Yeah, I I got a lot of peace and freedom when I realised my expectations were way too high.

Like if your expectation is really, really low, almost nothing, yeah, then you’re not disappointed.

And then you don’t feel like you’re failing anyone because you kind of didn’t set up yourself.

17:13

Speaker 2

Well, you see, that’s a profound thing to say about perfectionism, because perfectionism is expectations that’s been set too high.

That’s exactly what.

17:23

Speaker 1

Happened, huh?

You just summed it up.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Well done.

Another question I’ve asked myself is can slowing down actually make me a better professional and parent?

17:40

Like can I do my job better if I do it slower or if I don’t actually fill my day with 20 tasks and like racing through them instead of doing 5 very well and then duplicating that in my parenting style?

18:01

Speaker 2

I really don’t have an answer.

What have you found?

Does it work?

18:05

Speaker 1

I think so.

I think slowing down actually.

18:10

Speaker 2

OK.

18:11

Speaker 1

Makes the quality and again, that being present and actually focusing on what you’re doing, the task in front of you instead of racing through it because you already thinking about the next thing or doing two things at once, like typing up something while you’re in a meeting.

18:31

That’s that’s what we do, especially with online meetings where your cameras off and you can do like other things while you’re listening with one ear, literally.

And then sometimes you miss something in the meeting or you, if you like truly present it, can actually have better output and at home better connecting connections with your family.

18:57

Speaker 2

And I think that’s a whole, well, the mindfulness movement is working with this, but I think that’s an ancient concept of spirituality of any kind is to be, to not only be present in prayer or meditation or whatever, but to take that presence with you in everything we do, if we garden and if we cobble.

19:18

And the ancient monks have been doing that for centuries, slowing down, being, paying attention, being present.

Yeah.

No, that’s true.

Look sometimes your chapters where you have to run.

19:30

Speaker 1

Yeah, we will never get away.

19:31

Speaker 2

We’ll never get away from that.

Sometimes it’s like, OK, beginning of school week in end of January, then we know everybody has parent nights at school and has to get back into routine and start-ups of sports teams and whatever.

19:48

And then you’re running for the first few weeks and then they settle into school routine and then it calms down a bit.

So there are times that you, you are going to run.

But if ever possible, I agree with you.

Fewer things.

Yeah, fewer things.

We, we pressure the kids as well.

20:05

Yeah.

And for what?

20:07

Speaker 1

That’s something I’m aware of.

I don’t necessarily address it, but I’m aware of it.

I see the pressure my kids are under and they still young.

They’re not high school or in like, serious sports yet or anything.

20:25

Yeah.

And I’m acutely aware of the difference in when I was a kid, when I was in school 30 years ago, like their age and what they like, even academically, what they are learning in these very low grades, they are already like, I couldn’t read like that when I was his age or I couldn’t, you know, like speak 2 languages fluently when I was their age.

20:54

I mean, it’s like it’s mad.

20:57

Speaker 2

I’ve had the privilege to work with kids for quite a large part of my life and they often tell me things that they don’t tell their parents.

Ohh yes.

And they lost 10 to 15 years maybe.

I’ve mentioned this now a while ago.

Is is they’ve really been like become resentful because of the pressure of from parents, especially about academics.

21:18

And then sometimes I feel I want to tell parents, they have to also learn to be natural human beings to be able to flow with seasons.

They also have to be learn to be social human beings and function in groups and with friends.

21:37

They have to, and I know sports and whatever helps with that as well.

But they they also have to know what it feels like to be bored just a little bit, just sometimes.

21:46

Speaker 1

I tell my kids, listen, being bored is not my problem, it’s your problem.

I’m not yet to entertain.

21:53

Speaker 2

You use your.

21:54

Speaker 1

Mind and find something.

21:55

Speaker 2

To do yeah, they, they experience a lot of pressure from their parents.

And, and I’ve, I’ve tried to understand it and I do because I think the last 30 years in the country that we live in, we understand that our children, there are fewer spaces and there have to be competitive to get somewhere.

22:12

But wow, we have to be realistic about their coping skills and their mental health skills.

And what’s happening now is this generation is really having a hard time with mental health.

22:24

Speaker 1

I think COVID also played a very big role in that.

Yeah.

I always thought when, especially in hard lockdown, when we had two kids in nappies, so I thought, ohh, my gosh, we had it the worst.

And then you start talking about people who have to actually home schooling.

22:41

Ohh.

And then you’re like, no, no, no.

We were the lucky ones.

Yeah.

Like keeping kids in the controlled environment when they very small is a lot easier.

And when I see how we struggle with homework, I don’t think we would have coped with home schooling.

23:01

Yeah.

So yeah, they mental health, there’s so many factors playing a role in that, and we have to be aware of it.

I love what you just said about the seasons because I, I think many of us struggle with seasonal depression.

23:18

And I saw this quirk that said you just have to treat the season as a time of reflecting and resting.

So in summer, we are more social.

We can go out, we can go to the beach and do what we want.

23:34

And then in winter, it’s indoors.

But instead of feeling trapped and feeling like you, you go and do what you want.

You should see it as a period of race, like even the trees actually take a break.

23:50

Speaker 2

But you see, it’s the same thing now.

We’re forced to be quiet for a minute and then ask ourselves, why do I avoid being quiet?

Yeah, and that’s very profound onset to come up of often.

And that’s why we have winter and seasons and times of quiet.

24:05

Speaker 1

And we have to teach that to our children.

Yeah, yeah.

Because they don’t like being bored and they don’t like sitting still.

And they always need stimulation, I feel.

And we need to actually teach them to just be.

24:21

It’s not easy.

24:21

Speaker 2

Look, we’re all, we’re all addicted to dopamine.

Yeah, kids as well.

We have to admit it.

Yeah.

We can only also manage that in pockets of Yeah, a minute of quiet.

Yeah, it’s good.

24:32

Speaker 1

Enough.

And we have to have a lot of grace with our kids because they literally grow up in a different world than we do.

I think grace is the answer.

Grace with ourselves and with the kids and with other people.

24:45

Speaker 2

Kinder.

Slower.

Slower.

24:49

Speaker 1

Yeah, I love that.

How do we start changing the conversation about being busy?

Because I think a lot of it is about what we say.

And if we can change the conversation about how are you?

I’m so busy, I’m running around like, can we actually start there?

25:09

Instead of reporting to each other how busy we are?

What if we say, how can we change that conversation?

25:18

Speaker 2

That’s a clever question.

Hey, that’s such a clever question.

I find it so ironic when I came in this morning and we met each other in in front of the mirror in the bathroom and I said, ohh, it’s been crazy.

I’ve been so busy and and I realised I just did what we agreed to speak about.

25:38

Speaker 1

Which makes it so relatable and which is why why we have to talk.

25:43

Speaker 2

About it I am, I know, I don’t know, maybe it came with a grey hair, but I find it actually more satisfactory at this stage of my life to just listen.

OK, so maybe because I trust you, I said ohh, I’m so busy, please have sympathy with me.

26:00

But I, I, I think I can say with confidence that it’s okay if other people say that to me, but I’ve decided not to respond.

26:07

Speaker 1

Okay.

26:08

Speaker 2

So being the being the alternative, embodying the alternative has been my decision.

Also, maybe we could have because of my job, We we, we have to live the alternative Yeah, to.

26:19

Speaker 1

People trust you to carry their your emotion as.

26:23

Speaker 2

Well, exactly.

We, you have to really be contained to be able to facilitate a good conversation in a counselling setup or in a, in a, a, in a closed space where people trust you.

So it’s a responsibility to contain yourself.

26:39

But I haven’t been wise with that forever.

It also came with a lot of practice and age.

Maybe.

Yeah, no, I I found that I love breathing.

26:50

Speaker 1

OK.

26:51

Speaker 2

I think we breathe too little.

Yeah.

So maybe before you get out of the car to pop into the shop or maybe before you get.

I remember sitting in my garage in my car.

There was a scene in a movie as well where the mom sits in the car and like, I have to go into into the house now to relieve the nanny.

27:09

Just breathe for a minute.

Even if you can’t ask the question, why can’t I be still?

Now?

If you, if you’re not brave enough to do that, just breathe for one minute and then empower yourself to not your, to not respond to other people’s franticness all the time, I think.

27:28

Speaker 1

I’m like, no, no, I love.

27:30

Speaker 2

That How do you change that conversation with other people?

27:34

Speaker 1

Sure.

I I don’t think I have already.

I feel like it’s definitely something that needs to start happening because we almost, like I said in the intro, it’s like you don’t understand.

And I feel like we need to acknowledge that we all understand.

27:50

Yeah.

And that we all struggle with being busy because we are #1 yeah.

It’s and because we don’t take time to rest.

Yeah.

So if we again have enough grace with each other and be there for each other and maybe support each other and not resist support like we’ve said before, I think I think there’s definitely we should start a movement of moms actually trying to support each other emotionally.

28:21

I know practical support is not always possible, but just like to be calmer and it’s OK.

It’s OK not to attend every single birthday party or for your child not to actually be involved in everything the school has to offer.

28:40

And for people not to judge that.

Because if my, if I take my daughter out of ballet, the other mom shouldn’t be like, oh, but she’s going to miss out.

Like don’t put that pressure on me.

I think there’s a lot that we need to actually teach each other, you know, to get to that.

29:00

Speaker 2

Point So let’s make a pact the next time that we meet each other, we won’t say have you been ohh it’s a busy let’s change the conversation.

29:08

Speaker 1

Yeah.

29:09

Speaker 2

But.

29:10

Speaker 1

And it starts with the.

29:11

Speaker 2

Real.

It starts with.

29:12

Speaker 1

Us and if we have that with every interaction we have during the week, it can make a profound.

29:18

Speaker 2

Difference.

Then I’m going to have to tell you something else about my life.

If I can’t tell you that I’m busy, then I’m.

29:23

Speaker 1

Going exactly we can connect.

29:24

Speaker 2

I’m asking you what has been good?

Yeah.

What has been in harmony?

What has been?

29:29

Speaker 1

Have you rested?

29:30

Speaker 2

This have you arrested?

Where’s your pocket of rest been?

This.

29:33

Speaker 1

Week Have you been to the beach?

29:35

Speaker 2

This.

I love it.

I love it.

OK.

29:38

Speaker 1

Yeah.

So we, we’ve reached our last question.

OK, if someone’s listening right now and they feel extremely overwhelmed and exhausted, what is your message to her?

29:57

Speaker 2

That question that just touched my heart now in such a deep space because I also have that memory of COVID and seeing how young parents especially were struggling.

So I think the message would just be there are people who have compassion.

30:17

We do understand and the universe is a kind and friendly place.

You may also be kind and slow with yourself and your kids.

Give yourself permission to feel what you.

30:32

Speaker 1

Feel.

Yeah, I think what you just said is so important that other people understand better than you think.

Yeah.

So you are not alone.

There were thousands of women before you that have gone.

30:48

We sing in harmony, but our voices are unique.

Yeah, we have shared experiences.

Although your experience looks different from someone else’s, there are people who know what you’re going through.

Just speak up and speak out about it.

31:04

Get the support you need.

31:06

Speaker 2

And have compassion for yourself.

31:08

Speaker 1

Yeah, and this brings us to the final five.

This is five questions I ask every single guest to find out a little bit more about them and their motherhood journey.

So which part of your human experience, or ex as I like to call it, has been changed the most since you became a mother?

31:32

Speaker 2

I was quite hesitant to become a biological mother, OK, Cause I was quite focused on my, my job and my calling and my career and whatever.

And the friend said to me, you know what?

It’s a rite of passage.

You’re going to understand people much better.

31:48

Ohh.

And it actually relates to the lost question we just talked about.

That’s really true.

I do find that I have more compassion and not only for kids, but for parents, for families, for people in general.

I understand life in in a completely different way because I have, it’s like a, it’s like a tunnel you go through a bridge you walk over and you’ve gone ever go back.

32:13

So we know that it changes everything.

But I think for me it opened up my heart in a radical way.

32:22

Speaker 1

That’s beautiful.

So looking back, what would you do differently?

Ohh, what wouldn’t?

32:29

Speaker 2

You did lots.

32:30

Speaker 1

Of stuff.

32:32

Speaker 2

I, I would seek support earlier, okay.

I think I, I, I should have been more clever and analytical with myself and also with my support system.

And for a moment, I’m just going to be frank.

Absolutely.

32:48

If, if, if, if your partner or your potential partner is misogynistic in anyway or holds onto certain cultural things or certain roles that women have to play.

33:05

You need to have open conversations about support early on because I think there are hidden expectations in our culture and people interpret things differently.

Like some people just think a mom should stay home and do all the laundry and cook and clean and look after the kids and work.

33:24

And it’s it’s causing a lot of problems in partnerships and marriages in our time all over the world.

Yeah.

So I would have that conversation very early on in serious relationships.

33:37

Speaker 1

Okay, I think a lot of people will relate to that because the traditional rules were not set up in a time where women had careers and now we’ve had to engage in that world full time.

33:54

Speaker 2

Which is wonderful.

33:55

Speaker 1

Amazing.

No one says we don’t want to.

Yeah, but we can’t do everything for everyone.

There has to be a shade.

It has to be a shade.

34:05

Speaker 2

It has to be a shade journey and and responsibility and if it’s not clear beforehand then people just revert to what they grew up with or what they in any case believe that’s dangerous.

34:17

Speaker 1

And dangerous?

Absolutely.

So your kids are almost grown.

34:22

Speaker 2

Up.

Yes, they’re actually the youngest are 18.

34:25

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, they are young adults.

And what are you?

What are your conversations with them about parenting?

34:33

Speaker 2

I think the most important thing is to tell them you don’t have to be a parent, OK?

You have a choice.

Yeah.

You don’t have to get married.

You don’t have to be a biological parent.

You don’t have to.

We actually live in a time where that is a choice.

And let’s be honest, many people become parents when maybe they shouldn’t have.

34:51

So if it’s not something that you have in a piece of art, if it’s not something in your life journey, I don’t want my kids to be.

I don’t want them to have regret if they don’t choose family and children.

So it’s a difficult decision, but I think as a parent, you can decide to to not coerce and force because that’s what our culture culture does.

35:17

It’s expected of them to provide me with grandchildren.

Yeah.

It’s not fair for the time we live in.

I think parenthood is a it’s also an inner journey and a psychological journey and a crazy responsibility that if you’re not I, I actually find it refreshing if people decide that’s not for me.

35:40

I know myself, so my kids should just know I support them whatever they choose.

Yeah.

I want them to have a choice and exercise that choice, yeah.

35:52

Speaker 1

So the final question is, what is your North star when you’re making parenting decisions?

How do you channel your decision making process?

36:04

Speaker 2

I think I was really adamant on consistency, but I have to admit that it was easy because I only raised one biological child, so it was easier with only one child to be really consistent.

I chose early on not to have too many rules and boundaries that I have to say no about, but he knew when I said no, it’s really no.

36:27

Then I stood by, stood by.

I have one or two Rubicons in our past, you know where they were really tears and tantrums and are just stuck by my guns.

And I have to say that that really bull fruit we have with that with consistency.

36:47

I think to really enjoy your child or your children.

No, because that, I mean, why do we have them?

Why do they have us?

You know why?

Why?

It’s all about the relationship and it’s all about the connection.

37:03

And you cannot have.

That’s what the universe is teaching us.

You cannot have a child and not have fun I.

37:10

Speaker 1

Was just thinking the programs have.

37:12

Speaker 2

Fun, sure.

And then that connection happens, and then there’s real intimacy.

And the intimacy also happens in pockets.

It’s not like they’re not going to look in your eyes and have philosophical conversations, but the joy that it brings is so fantastic that the consistency and finding joy in what you’re doing with them because otherwise there’s no sense.

37:38

Speaker 1

No and and Everyone’s disconnected and unhappy and is now harmony and happy.

Just disjointed.

37:46

Speaker 2

Have fun.

37:47

Speaker 1

Yeah, fun.

Omari, thanks so much for joining me today.

I think you brought so much perspective and this is going to be meaningful for a lot of moms out there.

I appreciate your.

38:00

Speaker 2

Time.

Sending love to all the mums and dads.

38:03

Speaker 1

And dads, definitely.

38:05

Speaker 2

And and parentals.

38:06

Speaker 1

Everywhere.

Everywhere.

38:08

Speaker 2

Good luck message.

38:09

Speaker 1

Thank you, thanks so much.

So let’s all make a pact to actually not share how busy we are but how we are resting.

Support each other, stop glamorising burnout and wear business as a badge of honour.

38:24

Let’s change the conversation and let’s have grace and compassion.

Be kind and love slow.

Bye.

This episode of Moments is brought to you by Babies-R-Us and Toys-R-Us Your village.

Through every messy, magical step of parenting, from first kicks to toddler chaos, we’re here with love, guidance and all the essentials you need to thrive.

38:50

Because every moment matters.