Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Speaker 1 00:00:00 So you know, when you get home after work and before you can even process your day, you busy with homework, you’re playing Barbie, you’re cooking dinner. The washing machine is on while you’re keeping an eye on the never ending WhatsApp groups. Today we’re chatting about juggling hundreds of roles without dropping your sanity. I’m Matt and welcome to moments. Joining me today is Philippa Guild. She is the founder and CEO of Recruit My Mom and Recruit My Graduate, an agency dedicated to finding talented moms for businesses. Welcome, Philippa.

Speaker 2 00:00:49 Thanks, Matt. Lovely to be here.

Speaker 1 00:00:51 Thank you. As moms, we wear so, so many hats. We are CEOs. We are the snack queens. We are the Uber drivers and even therapists. One of the biggest roles moms have to play daily.

Speaker 2 00:01:05 Okay, so that’s a big question because we know that moms play so many different roles. But I think the primary role that a mom performs is very much one of comforter, carer and nurturer. And I think that if you take all the roles you’ve just even mentioned, those kind of that comforting, nurturing role undergirds everything that we do, and we actually take that into our workplaces as well.

Speaker 2 00:01:30 So I think that’s probably the biggest role that we do play.

Speaker 1 00:01:33 Yeah, I agree. So do you think society actually values all the roles moms play, or are we required to do it silently but perfectly?

Speaker 2 00:01:44 I think that society at large doesn’t fully appreciate and value everything that moms need to do and do. I think sometimes our own worst enemy as well, but that’s it. The reason why I think society doesn’t value what moms do is, is because they’ve not they’ve never not had it. So the way society has evolved and grown and developed over time is, is, is that the functional roles that moms fulfill? And we are naturally the carers and the nurturers and the ones that sort things out in the home. And so I don’t think it’s fully valued, but I think it’s only because it’s never been absent.

Speaker 1 00:02:28 Yeah I agree. People do rely on us and it’s not because of a societal expectation. It’s just the way it is. And it’s so natural for moms to fulfill that role.

Speaker 2 00:02:42 Yes.

Speaker 2 00:02:43 Yeah.

Speaker 1 00:02:44 So in playing all of these roles and wearing all of these hats, when do we know it’s time to take a certain hat off? And how do we do it without guilt?

Speaker 2 00:02:55 Yeah, mom. Mum guilt. That’s a big, very big topic on its own. So a hat that needs to come off is definitely a hat that is self-sabotaging and self-harming, or harming those that are closest to you and mean the most to you. So because we carry all these different hats and we do it with such high levels of responsibility, is that sometimes we don’t even realise that we’re either being harmed or what we’re doing with that hat is actually harming those nearest and dearest to us. And I think those are telltale signs of that hat. It’s got to go.

Speaker 1 00:03:36 Yeah, that’s such a good answer. So technology and working from home and flexibility has made it super easy for moms to work from home, but it’s also caused the boundaries to blur completely. We’re always on the work day. Almost never ends.

Speaker 1 00:03:55 What are some practical steps mom and moms can take to have a to have a clearer differentiation between home life and work life when they both happen in the same space?

Speaker 2 00:04:10 Yeah. You know, because I so work in this flexibility space, I see that, it’s one of the most liberating things we’ve been given to be able to work from home. And it can also, as you say, become, you know, almost a bondage in that one is not able to delineate between what is work and then what is life. So I just on the outset, I want to say that I’m a massive proponent of work life integration rather than work life balance. I think that work life balance means that you’re trying to get everything in perfect equilibrium, and there’s no mom under the in the earth or under the sun that has ever got everything in perfect equilibrium. And so, first of all, if we can get our heads around. Not trying to keep everything in neat boxes, it’s like it’s going to get a little bit messy and that if you can just integrate work and life somewhat, you’re going to find a comfortable space which is not so full of mom guilt.

Speaker 2 00:05:10 That said, there are some very practical things we can do to put boundaries in place to help us manage that blurring of lands. And for me, having seen so many women and helping women be put into work, that’s more flexible. One of the obvious things is to have a very definite workspace that has boundaries around it. So children know that’s mom’s workspace. Husbands know when wife’s there. That’s mom’s workspace, but also even with friends. You know, I started my business when my daughter was in grade R and my son was she was triple naught. He was in grade R, and then you would be called upon by other moms to do pickups or, you know. can I pop in for tea? You know, all of those things. And so you have to be able to put those boundaries in place. But I think you can also be comfortable with a little bit of blurring. So if, if a mom pops in for tea, is that a train smash. And it’s about working out what your boundaries are.

Speaker 2 00:06:10 but there are definite those physical things you put in place. I think they help the blurring. And then the more you do that, the more you’re able at the end of the workday to be able to close the door, walk away, and then be fully focused at home.

Speaker 1 00:06:24 Yeah, I love what you’re saying. And it makes so much sense because when you’re working at the dining room table and that’s where the kids do their homework, and that’s also where you eat and where everything else happens. It’s it’s just amazing.

Speaker 2 00:06:37 Yeah. Because you yourself don’t have boundaries in place to be able to say, no, actually, this is not work time. You know, and kids don’t know. When can they interrupt? Mom? Can they not interrupt mom? You know, suddenly you’re on a really important call. A child walks in, you see all the stress levels rise. The child doesn’t know what’s going on. You know, the hand signals under the table.

Speaker 1 00:06:56 Like I know that too well.

Speaker 1 00:07:01 So on the topic of flexibility, when you work from home, say school holidays or your child is sick and you need to work from home to be with them, it is very hard to wear all the hats at once when the kids are there. Is this something you’ve noticed in your clients or what women or moms talk about a lot?

Speaker 2 00:07:24 Yeah, definitely. So, you know, when you’re working for most women, when the taxi hits the tar, the child is going to take the priority because that’s the way moms operate. And so when we are assisting women to find work, either in a hybrid way or at home. And we know that they’ve got particularly small children. You know, once your kids get older, it’s so much easier. But when they’re very little, then one of the first things we always ask is, what is your support structure? Who do you call when there’s an emergency? So is there a is there a parent? Is there a carer? because often, you know, they’ll say, look, my child is in daycare, so it’s absolutely fine, I can work.

Speaker 2 00:08:14 But the minute that child is sick, their child is no longer in daycare. And then what? So either you need a really good support structure behind you to be able to fulfill work life, or you need to have a very open and honest conversation with your employer and be able to take leave when that child is sick, rather than trying to wear multiple hats. Being a nurse and trying to operate your job because that’s just stressful for you and also you’re going to disappoint your employer. So having very clear lines on things is is actually the best. And also to be able to communicate well as to what’s happening. because every level, not every most employers will be understanding if there’s enough time given and there’s enough support seen for the job, but understanding that a child is sick. Yeah, but it takes planning and it takes thinking before you take on a job, you know what’s going to happen in case.

Speaker 1 00:09:12 Yeah, that’s a very important point, because you have to kind of foresee that it’s not always going to be the way you envision it.

Speaker 2 00:09:19 Correct.

Speaker 1 00:09:20 So many moms want flexibility, and when they get it, they realize it’s much more stressful than they actually thought it would be. And it doesn’t come from a place of being ungrateful. It’s just not the unicorn you thought it would play out. Although it makes your life easier and you have the time you would have spent in your commute or doing other things for your work, and you can quickly do like maybe a load of washing in between. But it’s not all it’s cut out to be.

Speaker 2 00:09:54 Absolutely. I think that’s the reality is, is people think, you know, this is the answer is, you know, I’m going to, you know, even, you know, I’ve just had a baby and so I’m going to take on a job and I’m going to nurse my child, you know, and then you’re like, you realize one or the other is going to take strain.

Speaker 1 00:10:10 so just the thought of that makes my anxiety, you see.

Speaker 2 00:10:13 And can you imagine it, employers anxiety level as well.

Speaker 2 00:10:16 You know, when they’re employing somebody like that and they, you know, the baby’s screaming or, you know, you’re quite, not quite able to attend a meeting because the baby needs you. You know, it doesn’t work. You really got to try and separate it. And I’ve heard many moms say it’s actually easier to go to the office because then everybody knows you know, where things land. But for a lot of moms, it’s actually easier to be at home because you can receive a courier, you can receive your groceries, you can put a load of washing on. you know, there’s so many other things that that benefit from being there.

Speaker 1 00:10:47 Yeah. Especially if you thought you were going to do something like an example, like take the the meat out of the freezer for tonight and you arrive at the office and you’re like, damn, you didn’t do it. Well, when you’re home, it’s like a 32nd job and it’s done. Many people call the brain drain, you know, people leaving South Africa for to work in other countries.

Speaker 1 00:11:08 But there’s a very big brain drain actually happening here as well. And it’s moms leaving the workforce completely. I heard a stat that said 1 in 3 moms actually either transition into a new career to be more, to spend more time with her family, or they leave the workforce completely. Do you think that figure is even higher?

Speaker 2 00:11:32 Yeah. So what is I know, actually a South African figure because we’ve just recently released the Working Woman Report in South Africa 2025, and the stats around career pauses are that 43% of women will take a career break. And we call it a career pause. And those pauses are mostly because of having children, but it can be to take care of parents. It can be for mental health reasons. It can be retrenchment. You know, there’s various reasons why people take career pauses. The other interesting stat is, is that 94% of those women will re-enter their careers, not necessarily in the same way as they left, which is exactly what you’re saying. And the reason for that brain drain was actually why I started to recruit my mom in 2012, because I was I was so aware of the fact that South Africa had a brain drain of people leaving and immigrating from our country.

Speaker 2 00:12:31 And yet, when I met these incredibly talented women who’d studied, they’d worked internationally, locally, and the recruitment agencies wouldn’t take them seriously. I was like, this is. This is nuts. You know, somebody needs to do something to help retain these women in their careers. And that was where recruit my mom started.

Speaker 1 00:12:51 That’s amazing.

Speaker 2 00:12:52 And so so it really was to plug that so that we don’t have this brain drain of women. And you know, when I started in 2012, there were a lot more women who were able to stay at home as full time moms. Times have changed.

Speaker 1 00:13:09 You know, the economy doesn’t allow that.

Speaker 2 00:13:11 Yeah. The world doesn’t actually allow that anymore. And so a stay at home mom is almost unheard of now. So if you’ve got so many more women wanting to come back in into the economy and be active in the economy, you know, how do they manage that if you just don’t have the resources to be able to put all the childcare in place and everything else that needs to be done to be able to support that.

Speaker 2 00:13:37 So that’s where flexible working has been a real game changer for women. and it really has helped that, you know, they can have another income coming into the home for financial stability.

Speaker 1 00:13:47 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 2 00:13:48 Yeah.

Speaker 1 00:13:49 So when women do leave and come back, there’s always these gaps on their CV and how it’s not just the gap on the CV, it’s also a gap in confidence. Why do we why do motherhood actually affect our confidence professionally?

Speaker 2 00:14:05 Yeah. You write about gaps on the CV and it’s something, again, that we actually talk about quite a bit to employers to say actually gaps on mothers CVS. Can it be a good thing because they collect all these additional soft skills that they bring in like negotiation. You know, someone can negotiate beautifully with their children. Time management, prioritization, empathy, you know, name all of the soft skills. So I think that first of all advice to moms is don’t be embarrassed or afraid to put. Put a gap on your CV. It explains what happened and you can pull out all those incredible soft skills you learnt during that time.

Speaker 2 00:14:44 And leadership is definitely one of them. The question around confidence is a is a is a good one and a complex one because there’s so many facets to that. So first of all, I think that society at large plays a role. And we touched on it earlier in that we have societal norms that are laid on us as women in terms of when we little as little girls, you’re often it’s reinforce you over and over. You look so pretty. you know, don’t don’t be too rough, you know, sit nicely. Don’t speak so loudly. and so we learn to to hold back and to behave in a certain way. And boys are encouraged to climb trees. and it’s okay if they’re loud and they’re so clever. And so there’s societal grooming, if you like, which impacts our confidence. and then you’ve got the big old imposter syndrome, which happens particularly after you’ve had a break from your career, which is I don’t belong here. Why am I, you know, you know, somebody’s going to find out that I’m not supposed to be here.

Speaker 2 00:15:58 and then you’ve got the motherhood factor. So you have a baby. You’ve you’ve been through quite a lot. and and having a baby, especially if it’s your first time, does impact your confidence because you’ve you’ve taken a break from your career, and now you’ve got to be comfortable to be able to step back in the same space you, you held prior to having a baby. And that’s a very real thing. And, it does take a while, but I often say it’s like riding a bicycle. Once you get back there, You realize, oh, I can still do this. I can do it. So it’s very much in our in our heads. and then there’s just the real alternatives out there, which is that women often do struggle in a boardroom setting. There is, you know, you’ve got men who are not aware of how they’re treating women or they, you know, you’re sitting in a boardroom and you’re suddenly feeling, but everybody’s talking and they’re not giving me a space to come in.

Speaker 2 00:17:03 So there’s real factors that are at play, and all of those things actually do affect our confidence. So it is a complex thing. But they’re real.

Speaker 1 00:17:14 Yeah, they’re definitely real. Yeah I think imposter syndrome is such a big one for not just moms, but for women in general and returning after maternity leave. I remember when I went back the first time when the lift opened on the floor, when I had to walk in and I was like, I’m not the same person anymore. The last time I was here, I wasn’t a mother, and now I’ve had this for months with my baby. I’ve changed completely. How am I going to do it? But it was like riding a bicycle. I went and I did it with a lot of guilt and a lot of, mind space. This whole other life that was going on in the, in the behind the scenes. But we just do it. Yeah.

Speaker 2 00:18:04 Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And, you know, I think confidence is also something we need to learn to talk to ourselves about regularly is do that self-check.

Speaker 2 00:18:14 Why why am I feeling like this? And to be to remind ourselves and for women to remind other women that you’ve got this week. We’re doing this. and to be able to pull each other up.

Speaker 1 00:18:27 Yeah, definitely. I think having someone in your workspace that is like, almost like a mom mentor to you to show you like you’ve got this, you can do it. We we do it together. Yeah. And I’m here for you if you need it. Yeah. That’s so important. So Phillipa has wearing all these many different hats. From being a business owner to being a mom and being many things to many people. Has that changed how you see yourself?

Speaker 2 00:18:56 Absolutely. I think the answer is yes. I feel that I am a lot more rounded as a person because of all these different hats that I wear. You know, I often describe, a woman as a diamond, if you like. So we have so many different facets to ourselves. And if you if you take that analogy and you think if a diamond only had two facets, it would no way be as beautiful as it is with so many facets.

Speaker 2 00:19:26 And so my life is fuller and more interesting because I have so many different roles to play. So I’m a wife, I’m a daughter, I’m a sister, I’m a mother, I’m a boss, I’m an entrepreneur, I’m involved in my community. You know, I’m a friend to to many. There’s so many aspects of who we can be if we just find them and do them well. And it’s not to say do them perfectly, it’s it’s doing them well. And so the answer is very definitely, I feel like I’m a much better person and probably more interesting to my husband too, because I have so many more facets to myself.

Speaker 1 00:20:03 Yeah, I love that. I love the analogy of the diamond. It’s so it sums it up so perfectly. If there’s one hat that you want to take off and never, ever wear again, what would that one be?

Speaker 2 00:20:18 I think that if I had to choose one, it would be my what I call my Miss Fixit hat. So I have such a high level of responsibility for everything that happens that I want to fix everything.

Speaker 2 00:20:33 At one stage I was like, I’ll be the president of South Africa and I’ll fix South Africa. I just the sense of wanting to fix, okay, you know, just society and things at home and work. And so if I could, I could take a hat off. It would probably be that real. It’s probably a responsibility. Hat is, is that we wear and I wear quite heavily. but I don’t know what my life would be like without it. It’s so much, I think, that that’s probably grown into me.

Speaker 1 00:21:02 Yeah. So, Philippa, what would you say to a mom that’s feeling overwhelmed? And she’s feeling like she’s dropping more balls than what she’s keeping up in the air?

Speaker 2 00:21:13 I think we all do carry and have too many balls in the air. My advice to to other moms and to myself often Is don’t drop the glass ones. So we carry so many different balls and we juggle so many balls, but some are are more rubbery and can bounce. And it’s okay if you drop them, whereas others you can’t.

Speaker 2 00:21:38 And I think intuitively, each of us knows in our heart and mind which are the glass balls and which are the rubber balls. And so if you can keep the glass balls going and not drop them, then you’re doing really well. And even if you drop a glass ball is then just go back and try and repair it as best you can and don’t beat yourself up about it. But if the way that you know, I get asked so many times, you know, how have you managed it all? You raised your kids, you built this business. You know how how did you how do you kind of handle it all? And I was like, because I set my priorities upfront. And for me, my priorities were my marriage And my children. And that meant that when I needed to have glass balls in the air, the ones that I went, I wasn’t going to drop the one that was not my husband and not my kids. Even though at times I they knew that I needed to attend to work, but I never dropped them to a point where it was going to hurt them or that situation.

Speaker 2 00:22:41 And so I think it’s really important to know what your priorities are and keep those priorities all the time at the at the forefront of your mind.

Speaker 1 00:22:50 I think that’s some of the best advice I’ve heard in a very long time. The glass balls versus rubber balls. Because in the end, when it’s all said and done, those are the things that are most precious and most important in your life and the whole reason why you have a career and why you want to show up for the glass balls. And the rubber balls are they do fill in your life, but it’s not your life.

Speaker 2 00:23:19 Yeah, that is right. Absolutely.

Speaker 1 00:23:22 So, Philippa, thank you for answering all those questions. You’ve given us a mountain of advice and perspective on working moms and juggling it all. We’ve reached the part of the episode where I ask you five questions. We call it the Final Five, which is, five questions. Every guest on moments answer. So which part of your human experience or like I like to call it, was changed the most by becoming a mom.

Speaker 2 00:23:56 My heart. So before I was a mom. Believe it or not, I was not maternal at all. I hadn’t really held a baby. I’d like like, kids and me were like, And then in having children, it was actually a decision I made when I got to 32. I was like, oops, I better think about this now and have a baby, as opposed to yearning for a baby. But the minute I had one, it’s like my compassion and my sense of just, you know, just my whole heart changed in being a mom. and I just have such a heart for children now. And they. Vulnerability. It’s like I’m a completely new person. Before I had, you know, from when I. Before I had children to having a child.

Speaker 1 00:24:42 Yeah. That’s beautiful. It does change your whole perspective because you think, you know children or you think you think what it’s going to be like. And then when you actually it’s like life changing.

Speaker 2 00:24:55 And you always think you know how to raise children when you don’t have them, right?

Speaker 1 00:24:59 Yeah.

Speaker 1 00:25:00 There’s that quote. And I think Vanessa Raffaelli on The Village has coined this one. It says I was a very good parent until I had a child.

Speaker 2 00:25:09 Yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 1 00:25:11 So looking back, what would you have done differently as a mom.

Speaker 2 00:25:16 As a mom. Nothing. I think that I would have done exactly what I set out to do. You know, when I started my business, I. Because my glass walls were my marriage and my children, I didn’t want an au pair. I am exceptionally proud of my children, who are now both at university. So they’re young adults, and I know that they’re very proud of me, and neither of them resent the fact that I’ve started my own business and run my business. Both of them are well aware, and I know this because they’ve spoken to other people who have told me that they always knew that they were my first priority and not my business. And that is really important. I wanted them to always know that they were my priority, and I got that right.

Speaker 2 00:26:10 and I would want that for every mom.

Speaker 1 00:26:12 Yeah. That’s so amazing when you said they are proud of you. I almost teared up because isn’t that what we all want when our kids are grown up? That they that they feel pride. Not us being proud. Not just us being proud of them, but they reciprocating. Yes.

Speaker 2 00:26:29 Absolutely. Yeah. And flexibility and working flexibly has enabled me to do that because otherwise I would have been in an office from eight till five and I wasn’t, I was around. Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1 00:26:41 We are very lucky that we can have that these days.

Speaker 3 00:26:45 Absolutely.

Speaker 2 00:26:45 Because there’s many that don’t. And and if you can’t, you definitely shouldn’t have guilt about it. You’ve got to be able to make it in another way in, you know, to be able to show your kids that, that your they’re still your priority because you need to go to the office to work to be able to earn, to be able to contribute. So there’s different ways of showing it.

Speaker 2 00:27:04 Yeah.

Speaker 1 00:27:05 So what are you most grateful for as a mom?

Speaker 2 00:27:09 My kids, I’m most grateful for them that they’ve grown up to be such well-rounded, contributing to society, human beings. and then also and I would be amiss to not mention this, but my husband’s been an incredible support to me. And and we underestimate the value of support systems when we are working moms. We need that. We need because, you know, it’s easy to look, for instance, at recruit my mom or recruit a graduate and go, oh, they’re so successful. But there’s a whole backstory of many long hours. Tears, struggles to get there, and I needed my husband to have my back. and so I’m most grateful for him in my life as being a co-parent with my kids.

Speaker 1 00:27:57 That’s wonderful.

Speaker 2 00:27:58 Yeah.

Speaker 1 00:27:59 so your kids are almost all grown up. what are you telling them about parenting?

Speaker 2 00:28:07 first of all, my kids know, and I say this often is you didn’t come with a manual. So.

Speaker 2 00:28:14 So I’m trying my best here, you know. but I am telling them the piece of advice I give them most often is choose your spouse. Well, because if you can raise children in a team where you work well together, similar values, similar beliefs, similar outlook of life, then it makes parenting easier. Because parenting is no joke, right? It’s no joke. So if you’ve got somebody with you in that parenting journey, it makes all the difference. So. So my advice to them in the parenting journey is choose your spouse well.

Speaker 1 00:28:52 Good advice Philippa. What is your Northstar when you make decisions around parenting?

Speaker 2 00:29:00 So my My North Star on parenting is also my North Star in life. So I am a I’m a I’m a Christian And my North Star is very much the teachings of the Bible. and so whenever I have any major life decisions or parenting decisions or needing any kind of even business decisions, is is that grounds me? And it sets me on a pathway that helps me to be able to pretty much make major life decisions.

Speaker 2 00:29:33 And so that’s actually been my North Star and and always has been, in both work and parenting and in marriage, actually all aspects of my life.

Speaker 1 00:29:44 I agree completely and it makes all the difference. Philippa, thank you so much for coming and for joining me today and for sharing your expertise and your experience with us, and I really appreciate it so much.

Speaker 2 00:30:00 Thanks for having me. It’s been such a pleasure to be on moments. It’s a wonderful, wonderful show and appreciate it.

Speaker 3 00:30:06 Thank you.

Speaker 1 00:30:08 So let’s normalise dropping a few hats, being real and redefining what having it all should look like. If this episode resonated with you, please share with a mom who’s in the thick of it too. And don’t forget to follow and subscribe. Until next time. Bye! This episode of moments is brought to you by babies R Us and Toys R us. Your village. Through every messy, magical step of parenting from first kicks to toddler chaos. We are here with love, guidance and all the essentials you need to thrive.

Speaker 1 00:30:47 Because every moment matters.