Moms, Stop Going Broke to Prove You’re a Good Parent

Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Madge 00:00:00 So you know, when the end of the month is nearing and you know what still needs to happen? And you look at your bank account and you go, oh, shit. Today we talk about money. The panic inducing part of parenting no one warned you about. If you’re still wearing the same title since 2012, but your kids have the best of everything. Stay tuned. I’m your host, Matt, and this is moment. Janine horn is the CEO and founder of the Dragonfly Institute, a financial advocate, executive advisor, and thought leader in the financial service industry. Through her initiative, Project 1 Million, she aims to educate 1 million kids on the South African Cape Flats and townships via her Financial Literacy book series. She also runs a successful financial planning practice, and created the Financial Dating program to help couples build healthy financial habits together. If you’ve ever needed someone to help you with savvy spending, it’s her. Welcome, Janine.

Janine 00:01:20 Thank you Madge. Thanks for having me.

Madge 00:01:22 Janine. When it comes to money, it’s always a headache.

Madge 00:01:26 There seems to be too much to do with too little.

Janine 00:01:32 Absolutely.

Madge 00:01:33 So what? Why do you think moms feel guilty when we can’t give our kids the best of everything?

Janine 00:01:41 Yeah, so moms feel guilty very easily. I think that’s the first part is we we we wear a guilt cloak. Yes. We almost wear it as a badge of honor. Yes. And it comes with being a mom. So when that badge of honor is invisibly created. It’s the concept of the best for my child, because either I didn’t have it, and even if I did have the best, there’s the best culture. So we’re almost living in a more competitive environment. And moms do it faster and sooner than dads. Okay. It almost comes so easily to us moms. The second thing is we don’t see money as a part of that transaction, okay? We separate the mommy ness from the money ness.

Madge 00:02:31 That’s so interesting.

Janine 00:02:33 Yes, we separate them. And in our heads, money is transactional to do stuff with the house and the kids.

Madge 00:02:41 Okay.

Janine 00:02:42 And so, being a mommy, the money part comes in so soon and we don’t see money as ours to build our own wealth, our own portfolios, and do us first.

Madge 00:02:57 Yeah. Never.

Janine 00:02:58 Yeah.

Madge 00:02:59 So what drives this emotional guilt? Is it society? Is it social media? Is it us? Where does it come from?

Janine 00:03:08 A combination of it all. Okay, a combination of it all. And we’re trying to almost compensate. Think about how how expensive life is at the moment. There are very few households in this age that have single parent incomes. So mostly we are all working. And as I said, we weigh that clock very easily. We almost put it on when once we give birth. Yeah. and that that whole guilt based parenting that we take on as moms is really the compensation, the compensation of, almost over parenting. We also are a helicopter parent generation. Yeah, absolutely. I can’t remember my parents helicopter. Me? No, never. Right.

Janine 00:03:54 So. So we’ve gone the opposite direction. And they They do say that that’s the problem with our generation is we’ve gone the extreme opposite. And so it’s a it’s a compensation thing. It’s a lack of being able to be there all the time as a working mom. and that compensation comes with the guilt and then the spending. So those, those three then go hand in hand. So the separation of, of of what’s money for me is now money as a mommy for us. And then the guilt, the overcompensation. and then there’s a journal of consumer research that found that guilt leads to prosocial purchasing. So there’s that social aspect that you spoke about, meaning we overspend on others. because basically we want to feel better about ourselves.

Madge 00:04:46 Yeah.

Janine 00:04:46 Okay. So that’s what guilt is, right? Guilt is I give so much to you, so it makes me feel better. Yes. and so that’s an interesting. Yeah. And it’s been, it’s been journaled.

Madge 00:04:58 That’s amazing.

Janine 00:04:59 It’s not just a feeling thing.

Janine 00:05:00 It’s not just a norm thing. It’s. It’s not a factual thing.

Madge 00:05:03 Yeah, sure. Yeah. There’s also that societal expectation of I think because we work. All the kids do soccer or ballet or swimming, and then you feel your kids are going to be left out if they don’t join. And all of those things not only cost the coaching cost a lot, but also the equipment. And then they go on to match, and then it’s a different uniform from when they practice. And it’s it all adds up. And when we were kids, we just did the school sports or we just did what we wanted to do. It wasn’t that pressure.

Janine 00:05:41 And schooling has changed. So schooling now makes sports compulsory. Yeah. Think about also we went to one school only. It was the school down the road. I didn’t have to apply at five different schools. There wasn’t that competition. Yeah. So that very statement shows that there’s an intense competition also from an environmental aspect. And so the intensive parenting culture, has created those.

Janine 00:06:09 Those demons, the Pinterest pressure, I call it. Yeah. the fact that we almost over mirroring our kids. because the competition, that ecological environmental competition that’s almost cascaded down into our households. Yeah. and that gets cascading down because now your daughter and your son comes home and says, but this, this, this and that and the other, I find parents put financial planning lost. So besides overspending, they also put financial planning lost. The amount of times I’ve spoken to parents. And I said, is your will in place? They do not understand that it’s part of the needs of that household. And we may be coming to it a little bit later, but it’s, it’s, it’s again because we want to give in to the Pinterest culture. We want to give in to the cascading of the societal pressure that’s coming down in this environment. Absolutely, absolutely. And so we internalizing those ideals. Yeah. As opposed to a firm line in the sand. There’s a there’s a formula that says 50% or needs 30% on one’s 20% on savings.

Janine 00:07:30 And that’s your 100% of your household budget. Okay. So the sit down with the kids, around 5000 extra murals and 5000 play dates is a discernment and a conversation between wants needs. And if we understand that certain things or needs one sport per season, yeah, then the rest are once. And then we understand that sometimes the budget doesn’t allow for once. Yeah. And we sacrifice a lot of our ones because we make our kids wants the needs of the household. I’m going to repeat that. We sacrifice our ones because we make the kids once the needs of the household.

Madge 00:08:13 That is so true that it’s like what you’re saying is literally explaining my entire budget.

Janine 00:08:21 Exactly right. And so then we go, but there isn’t money. There isn’t money, there isn’t money. And so if I were to put the financial planning hat on, I’ll go. But the is money because. Tell me about everything you’re doing. If I scrutinize your bank account, if you scrutinize your bank account in my through my lens, we will see that there’s an overspending on ones.

Janine 00:08:43 So there’s not even saving. Sometimes in the household, part of the needs are things like because if you’re I don’t know if you if you know Maslow’s hierarchy of needs. So the theory there is. There’s a couple of couple of layers in that triangle. And it gets the base. The base is quite big because that’s your basic safety etc.. So those are needs. But companionship, compassion, love, self-actualization they are all part of our human needs. So even things like school, sports, us doing our hair as buying makeup as making ourselves feel pretty, it’s part of our needs. And so we’re sacrificing part of our needs as mommies. to really over oversupply, to the kids. So if you remember that that formula, you can then start having conversations with your kids. And that’s the third part that’s lacking is we’re not having these conversations. Yeah. I know my parents didn’t. I know when there was money and I know when there wasn’t. But my mom used to say to me, when you and your sister were little and I earned 45 grand a month, I saved three grand.

Janine 00:09:52 Oh, wow. I’m that old. And my parents are that old. Right. Possible. And later on, she would say, I started saving 50 rand. they never spoke to me about it, though. They never spoke to me about re working towards something. When I was nine, my parents did their matric around the same little table in Mitchells Plain and the Cape Flats. So I could see when we had money because now things changed. They were promoted. They never spoke to me about it though. Then we would have. Oh, I was, I was a model right now. So now there’s more money and I now want more clothes. And then mom’s account was very high. Okay. They never spoke to me about debt. So we’re missing the conversational piece. And that’s why I started with those books Madge, which is starting to teach kids about money from an early age. So it allows us as Says mummies to be able to have the conversation easier.

Madge 00:10:53 Yeah. Because we never we don’t really know where to start and what what is safe for them to know, for them not to panic and stress and take on our.

Janine 00:11:03 our stress.

Madge 00:11:04 Our.

Janine 00:11:04 Strengths. And so what do we say? There isn’t money. There isn’t money. My little nephew would often say, but mummy said there isn’t money. And so the reframe of that is it’s not within the budget. Remember we spoke about the budget because we only have X amount to spend on something like this. So we make a list of wants and needs together. And we say but we must save because let’s remember 20% of the 100%. Yeah. And so the kids, when they get pocket money or birthday money, must also go needs 51 city saving city. So as soon as we as mommies take control of that, there is a perception. And I may be wrong. There’s a perception that we as moms and as females bring that Messages into the household where daddies don’t do it as often. Okay, so there’s that. Also that misalignment. It’s maybe not it’s not a daddy thing to parent better. it’s maybe not a man thing to, to have such an interesting new conversation, but maybe it’s a mommy thing.

Janine 00:12:09 Yeah, mommy’s almost get to do the hard work too.

Madge 00:12:13 So Janine, it comes back to it’s as simple as boundaries. Yes. It’s not in the budget. We’re not doing it. Yeah. So in your opinion, what are the parts of our lives where parents actually overspend, where we step out of that boundary?

Janine 00:12:30 Red wine. Not for the kids, for ourselves. So if I were to to rephrase your question, I would say, do you know your boundaries? And a lot of the times it’s no. Yeah. Because we haven’t had that conversation. We haven’t broken up the percentages. Yes. So how am I going to know my boundaries and when I’m allowed to overstep them? Yeah, because I also have to give myself permission, don’t I? Yeah. And so if I don’t know the formula, if I don’t know and implement that for myself. I won’t know what the boundaries are. And then secondly, what do I allow myself and when do I allow myself or when do I give permission to step over the boundary? And then what is that boundary? Is that boundary now investing more money for myself, for my retirement, for my old age? Because we’re all going to get old.

Janine 00:13:26 Most of us. Right? Is it that I can have a wealthy mindset? Is it that I can say I’m doing a seasonal shop? I’ve started giving myself permission. And so in the deliveries come, they go. Oh, it’s again for her. And I’m going. Yes. Because for 20 years it was for you. Yeah, right. So it is for her now.

Madge 00:13:45 Yeah.

Janine 00:13:46 so yes, we have had the broken tiles for many years, while the kids have had every new color of the season. And so we also. We also produce adults that have no boundaries. Yeah. So when we understand our boundaries, when we have that conversation, when we cascade that percentage message down, we begin to raise financially literate adults because we were not financially literate.

Madge 00:14:13 Yeah.

Janine 00:14:14 Because if we were, we’d understand the concepts I’ve mentioned.

Madge 00:14:18 Yeah. That’s so important. It’s actually so simple and straightforward. We must just do it and stick to it.

Janine 00:14:24 Yeah. And think about it. It’s.

Janine 00:14:26 Nobody’s ever had the conversation. Unless you have a relationship with a financial advisor or professional, or unless at your workplace there was a financial wellness day. Or at least your colleagues and your mates and your female tribe, your local tribe. Or speaking about these things. You’re kind of doing it in a silo. Yeah. You’re really just talking women’s stuff and you’re talking mommy stuff and maybe marriage stuff, right? Yeah, but nobody really wants to talk money stuff other than how expensive it is and how much extra materials. And so it’s talking about the give, give, give. But you’re not talking about the gain gain gains. And we’re not giving each other tips for the gain gain gains so that we can also rid ourselves of our self-imposed cloak, our self-imposed self dressed shame guilt cloak. We almost made it like a badge of honor or a crown. Yeah, so it’s about stripping ourselves of that. And I always say, visualize the strip. And yes, you’re going to see the rolls and the lava handles when you visualize it, but maybe this time don’t see it.

Madge 00:15:29 Yeah.

Janine 00:15:30 Strip yourself, do it. Do a visualization of that guilt, that perception, that false narrative, and then empower yourself around what you’re going to clothe yourself with. You know, as women, we say she’s clothed, closed, clothed in strength and dignity. This is the same thing. It’s not separate. It’s not a separate thing.

Madge 00:15:54 That’s so interesting. So many people do overspend on things like private schools or high end baby gear, or designer clothes for their kids strollers.

Janine 00:16:08 No longer prams.

Madge 00:16:08 It’s strollers. Yeah. Are all those things actually worth it in the end?

Janine 00:16:14 If it’s aligned to your values and if it’s in your budget, and if you are doing the 50, 30, 20, the 50 is holistic financial planning. Savings. Short term. Long term emergency. If you’re doing all of those things, then yes, because that may be a budget that suits that lifestyle because it’s included according to those categories.

Madge 00:16:41 Everything comes back to the formula 100%.

Janine 00:16:44 So if it’s a values based thing, if you place a value on that, and if you can afford that value, and if you want to take that message into the legacy, that’s a deep that’s a deep word.

Janine 00:17:01 It’s a loaded word. Yeah. and so when I go back to the story of my parents and my mom’s savings, now I understand the legacy that she’s created, the legacy of improvement, of empowerment, the legacy of her mom said, hey, you need to go. You need to leave school in the poorer part of the day and go and work for the rest of the nine siblings. She said, okay, cool, but I’ll go to night school. So that empowerment piece, that piece of the legacy of, inspiration, the legacy of go for your goals, don’t ever stop. The legacy of structure, the legacy of not putting ourselves last lost and being the amortized and being the, the unprofessional powerhouses because we almost it’s that thing as well, you know. So I’m a great mom. I give my kids everything my household, we have this expensive stuff and we’re always having birthday parties. And she must have. So I’m a great mom. Yeah. What about being just a great mom without that? Yeah.

Janine 00:18:09 So we also adding those titles and those layers on.

Madge 00:18:12 Yeah. So something you said earlier was it struck me when you said that it’s something people sometimes overspend when it’s something they didn’t have. So they feel like it’s an investment. But where do you draw the line between investment and indulging or drowning yourself in debt?

Janine 00:18:33 So drowning yourself in debt is very true. South African middle class, middle middle class, middle income to upper are the most indebted Did in our in our in our country. So that was easier in the past. There’s now a lot of a lot, a lot more acts and lower legislation that makes it more difficult to continue to be over indebted. But it’s that that looking at the man in the mirror bit. So it’s the honesty factor. you know, it’s also the return on investment factor. And it sounds like I’m talking a lot of financial jargon words concept, but it’s just a, it’s a practical statement. And even I say to my kids, so I’m going to have to work till 70 because as a young parent, as young parents, we invested in better schooling for you and then moving out of our poorer areas to go to different schools because there is still a difference in education, I’m afraid, in terms of the geographic geographics and the demographics of South Africa.

Janine 00:19:41 Right. But we also need to to understand what is that return on that investment and knowing the difference between private school fees and model C school. And I know they don’t call the model C schools as such, but there’s a massive difference in fees just by those two distinctions. But what’s going to be what’s going to be the difference? Is there a difference when this when this adult comes out at matric at the end at the end of 12 years. Yeah. So it’s viewing it’s removing the rose colored lenses and putting on clear lenses and, and determining what’s the investment I’m wanting to make. So over. You spoke about over indebtedness the honest conversation about that with yourself. The second part you said was investment versus overindulgence. I think we know when we overindulge it’s that red bad wine. But. Right. So we know when we overindulge and we excuse it, we normalize.

Madge 00:20:39 It. We justify.

Janine 00:20:39 We justify it. Yeah. and so if you can’t be honest with yourself, you’re going to continue to excuse it and justify it.

Janine 00:20:47 and so I don’t have a great remedy for that. But I do start to say, if you need to think about something three times, it’s alluding to a problem statement.

Madge 00:21:00 Okay.

Janine 00:21:00 So if you’re kind of going.

Madge 00:21:02 That’s good advice.

Janine 00:21:04 I’m now again at this birthday party and how much I’m going to spend. And I really don’t have it, but I’m going to put it on pay flex or mobile credit. That’s already because I’ve thought about it three times.

Madge 00:21:17 Yeah.

Janine 00:21:19 so what I started introducing to my kids were whatever you want for Christmas and birthday. This is your budget for your birthday and Christmas presents, so I would give them a round value.

Madge 00:21:31 They’re excluding the party everything.

Janine 00:21:35 The rest you have to either work for and can cut up as Gross or whatever. I bribed my kids with. So my boy was a sports talented human being. However, many girls into the waterpolo net and over the rugby poles and A’s. So number seven’s okay. That used to earn you from ten grand to 100 grand in a metric, it was 1000 grand, right? And then one water polo tournament is called 21 goals.

Madge 00:22:08 Oh, dear.

Janine 00:22:08 And I was like, okay, this is not gonna work, right? And I couldn’t. I didn’t have a cap and I couldn’t relate on that.

Speaker 3 00:22:18 I thought, well, you’re gonna have to stick to the agreement. Yeah.

Janine 00:22:21 So that was a big lesson. but that’s your budget for all three. Party Christmas. Birthday. Okay. If it’s over budget, you work for it. Or we reduce or we say, well, next year we’ll get it, okay? You’ll get the peaceful or the whatever. Maybe I’m out of sync now because my son’s old, Older on the new the new names. But if it’s out of budget. So we go into next year and then we would say like okay, can maybe so maybe can I do 2 or 3 seasons? And then I’d say, what do you really want that expensive one then we’re not going to compromise. Yeah. So it’s difficult at first, but then it becomes the norm.

Madge 00:23:01 And the lessons they learn from it so valuable.

Janine 00:23:05 I mean, I’m fighting with him now is a 20 year old guy, and you’re supposed to save all of your pocket money and not party it out. So the rule has gone a little bit out the door because now as an adult. Yeah.

Speaker 3 00:23:13 So the group.

Janine 00:23:14 Has been really.

Madge 00:23:15 Got that foundation.

Janine 00:23:16 And it’s it’s the understanding. It’s the understanding that of.

Madge 00:23:20 So bringing us back to budgets, if there’s someone listening or watching today and she feels overwhelmed and she doesn’t know where to start, what are some practical budgeting tips you can give us?

Janine 00:23:34 So, you know, Covid was quite a nice example. So we I recommended I had a couple of radio slots during Covid because everybody’s like, how are we going to get through Covid? And you know, so one of the budgeting tips was talk about what is available to spend on what. So, you know, if we only have X amount for food then we can’t go to McDonald’s every week. We’ll have to do it every second weekend.

Janine 00:24:01 And then they know it and they understand it. If I were to go stay back, I’d say, do we even have budgets?

Madge 00:24:11 Yeah.

Janine 00:24:12 Then there’s the truth. The true assessment of all my expenses, actually more than my income. So do I have to start a side hustle? the other practical example is, you know, for every one new item, you’re going to give me two old so you don’t have that over surplus, mindset. Because kids also grow up with surplus mindsets because there’s new trends, new clothes all the time. Yeah. So if, if, if you want something new, you have to give me two items back. As old and often, it’s my favorite sneakers. And it is my favorite pants. And it’s okay. I don’t need. So it allows for that. Do I really need it? Conversation. And again the tip about think three times. And if I have to think three times then it means it’s a problem statement. Okay. food. So so we eat how many times a day do we eat? How many snacks do we eat? So it gets really, rudimental almost when it comes to food.

Janine 00:25:10 Really rudimental to play dates. Because now imagine how many play dates, how much they cost. Yeah. recycle the play dates. So not every weekend at my house. Yeah. Recycle the play dates amongst the the tribe of mummies. and then, I mean, there’s this this, this. I think your household, your household practices. Understand what those are, understand what those habits are. Food waste. I mean, we always needing to want. We’re needing to want to feed our kids better diets. And then the amount of food that goes in the bins, because it’s our want for the better diets. But then kids go, oh, I’m not going to have cucumber with every meal.

Madge 00:25:58 No bread crusts, right?

Janine 00:26:01 Yeah. Well that’s okay because you can put it peanut butter and give it to the dog.

Madge 00:26:04 Yeah.

Janine 00:26:05 That’s what we do anyway. so those are the type of the, the ideas for for practical, practical ideas. You know, what are your practices and then what habits can you stack onto those practices? So this concept of habit stacking.

Janine 00:26:23 it’s my buzzword for the year, but what habits can I stack onto those that allow us to change our practices? Okay. And again, moms can be moms can have young ones or or older ones like mine. and so it’s also, reminding your kids about one’s needs and. Yeah.

Madge 00:26:45 And educating them about it.

Janine 00:26:47 Absolutely.

Madge 00:26:48 So it’s interesting that you mentioned, Covid because in Covid I didn’t have my income and I took it in nappies. So we had to cut down drastically like to the bone. And still today, I would think before I buy something or if it’s like indulgent, I would think, okay, what would I have done five years ago? And then I know, okay, my old grade T is it’s a treat. Yes. Because back then it was not near my shopping list. So it’s also a way of like it’s great to have that perspective. And I think many people before Covid didn’t have it. So it’s context. You know what we as a family need.

Janine 00:27:36 100%.

Madge 00:27:37 And want because back then there were no one. Totally. It was surviving.

Janine 00:27:41 Absolutely. Yeah. And so survival. There’s a there is some stats around Covid. There’s a lot of survival trauma. So it’s a fine line between never wanting to indulge and treat myself or allowing my one treat. So you know how you tell your kids you’re allowed one treat? Yeah. Give yourself permission for one treat and choose that treat and choose that treat. And if it’s all grey, that makes you happy. Because of Maslow’s hierarchy of needs and comfort, companionship, self-actualization, which is actually all about you, then. Mummy? Yeah. You know, because what have you. What treats have you taken away from your kids to allow you one treat? Yeah. Think about that because chances are they still getting all their treats and you’re not wanting to give yourself the one treat.

Madge 00:28:30 So how much should we be saving for our kids futures and how do we start if we actually are stretched too thin?

Janine 00:28:43 so we don’t start early enough? It’s now we’re looking at now only.

Janine 00:28:49 We don’t want to talk about the future. We don’t look to the future. Hence, 82% of South Africans don’t have worlds because we don’t believe we’re going to die. Same concept. so we start too late. We don’t participate in in investments. We talk about savings. I’ve got money in the bank. Okay. and so our money is not working for us. so whether you’re saying I can afford again talks to budget, talks to you about, your living, your cost of living, your lifestyle. There’s the word I was looking for. back to the compulsory nature of 50. 30. 20 savings must be in that 100%. And so where we start depends again on your 100%. And if it means that you start when your child is born at 100 random month and you put it in a unit trust portfolio, or you look at 1000 rand a month as a recommended start, you start to participate in compound interest. My base story of compound interest is the chessboard. I teach this to kids all the time.

Janine 00:29:58 And I say, if you took one grain of rice and you doubled it up on every consecutive board, so one becomes two, two becomes four, four becomes eight. That’s 20. Yeah. By the end of the chessboard, you’re sitting with some ridiculous number that I don’t think you and I even knew existed. It’s like a trillion number. Oh, wow. So that’s the Warren Buffett concept of this world. So if we start to say to our kids, it’s important that we talk about how much we can spend on ones, it’s important that we start changing movie dates, that we talk about the practices that we go to the shop, ones wants that. Mummy doesn’t drive around 7000 times around the school because now you’re not coming out. There’s also diesel. There’s also money that to the earlier conversation that your child now begins to understand. Mommy also needs to save for her future and my future. My future is that I would most likely need to want to study something when I’m done with school.

Janine 00:31:00 Yeah, and that cost. Right now. Parents need to have at least 500,000 right now. Why? Because you have raised in school. And I mean, I heard on the radio the other day that I think kaput has space for 9000 new students, and they receive an average of a half a million per year. So think about the tight competition, and you may end up at a college that’s double the price of CPU because now it’s prime. It’s a private college.

Madge 00:31:37 Yeah.

Janine 00:31:38 Then your child is a sports star. Cost of rugby tours, water polo tours, gears, all of those things.

Madge 00:31:47 Yeah.

Janine 00:31:48 So also being able to tell a little one and a child at primary school, what is your future look like? It may be that you start playing sports and it may be that you play with a team and then you have to go on tours, and then you have to have school friends over, or there’s a touring school that I have to host that’s going to cost me money. Yeah.

Janine 00:32:13 So I need to save for your future, too.

Madge 00:32:17 Yeah.

Janine 00:32:18 And when kids understand that maybe it’s not a difficult thing going forward because to them, it makes perfect sense.

Madge 00:32:26 Yeah. Because they understand the logic behind it.

Janine 00:32:28 We’ve given the logic we’ve made. We’ve made practical sense of it. We’ve we’ve given an illustrator to them in real life. What I needed for. Yeah.

Madge 00:32:38 Wow. So your kids future and education versus paying off your debt. which one should we tackle first? Sure.

Janine 00:32:52 Education and data. Both in the 50% basket. savings are in the 100% basket. If you are finding that there’s more expenses because you’re over indebted as a South African, you have consumer rights. So it’s it’s taking counsel, seeking advice to understand that I’m over indebted. And there are South African consumer rights that now since since NCR. All of those things have come into play that can help you get out of that quandary. Many, many, many South Africans don’t know those consumer rights. Many South Africans don’t know the percentage of of being over indebted.

Janine 00:33:40 And there’s some beautiful calculators and it’s bank calculators. There’s some debt to help companies that have their calculators on, on, on. online. Kudos have it online. Capitec have an online app, an online calculator where you can actually say Emma over indebted or not. Okay. so those are freely available on the worldwide web. Okay. and so income. Income too little side hustle adjustments in lifestyle, adjustments in where we stay, how we stay. sometimes it is about unlocking value in property and assets to be able to, invest better, to be able to put some money away and then purchasing a lower property, a lower a lower price or lower value property. Although property in Cape Town is very expensive. So so consumer rights of indebtedness. It’s you have consumers consumer rights that can help you restructure your debt without the phone calls that bug you and keep you up at night without the panic of how I’m going to make it through this month. So we need to be proactive about understanding our money. Number one.

Janine 00:34:53 Number two, the budget. Number 350 3020. Number four having the conversations. Number five changing habit stacking on the practices. And then there’s the consumer rights of being over indebted.

Madge 00:35:05 And remember is that like going into debt review. Yes. Okay.

Janine 00:35:09 Yeah. Debt counselling. Debt review. Debt rehabilitation. So it’s restructuring your debt in a legal manner that protects you.

Madge 00:35:17 So you don’t go to a loan shark.

Janine 00:35:19 Absolutely. And not the panic. The quality of lifestyle. And some of those guys are very good. They talk about the quality of life. They talk about the fact that, ma’am, you hardly have money to buy enough food. So you’re borrowing from Peter to pay Paul. And the cycle repeats itself. Because there’s one answer that perhaps you haven’t looked at. There’s one solution that you haven’t looked at. So over indebtedness, debt counselling, debt restructure, then those calculators that I speak of all both those both those aspects of your question fits into the 50% of the needs and then the 100% of the budget.

Janine 00:35:55 And so what is the budget? And if the budget is compromised because of an over expense issue or because of an overspending issue, then there’s intervention that you need to then take. And so if we think about the question. If you fast forward, if we had a looking glass and we could fast forward to what would be the ideal future for our child, you begin to say, well, I want this child to have Of quality of life, a decent educational career, or we’ve got a family business and I want him to have the skills in that family business. And yes, going to university may be overrated because there’s a lot of other ways that we can develop and grow and build build on talent, skills and a career. Right? if there is a family business, you know, is that child is automatically going to be absorbed into it. and mommy and mommy and daddy is going to keep him protected from the real side of the business, and we’re going to do all the work until we’re 65, 70.

Janine 00:37:00 And then he can take over and run the run the ship down. What skills are we giving our kids? And so in that question again, it’s so loaded because the bit about, what is the future like the bits about, the skills that I’m imparting, the bit about both of those are important. And there are households that are currently going to be swearing if they hear this piece, because they’re going to mean there isn’t money. We’re just struggling to survive and unfortunately that’s a difficult one to give any advice or tips to because it’s so strained. But if those two things can be addressed, first is the income to little for the expenses. Then looking at the expenses and saying, what intervention do I need? is there a side hustle? Do I need to start a second business? there are stories of mommies working two jobs, and that’s why they’re guilty in the in the earlier conversation. That’s why they’d overcome compromise. and unfortunately, the cost of living is so expensive today. So the income expense issue becomes an issue.

Janine 00:38:17 And so the quick answer would be you need to earn more income.

Madge 00:38:20 Yeah.

Janine 00:38:21 How to make more money. And so the better answer is review the expenses. Review the date. Make the adjustments. Look at what legal assistance and advice you can get. Have the conversation with the family. Get everybody on board. Readjust the budget and be happy. Okay with it? Yeah, because we are also not okay with it. Yeah. It’s seen as a as an insult to injury. It’s seen as.

Madge 00:38:46 Scandal.

Janine 00:38:47 Salt in the wounds. It’s seen as you know. Oh but people can’t know some rather how to debunk Khanpur. Oh yeah. Yeah. that’s our own mask. Our own cloaks. Yeah. And again let’s remove it.

Madge 00:39:00 People are so much more understanding. Let’s remove it.

Janine 00:39:02 Yeah. You know, and if you have a tribe that is a true tribe.

Madge 00:39:07 This will be anyway.

Janine 00:39:08 Absolutely. There’s going to be no judgment there.

Madge 00:39:10 So you just said everyone needs to be on the same page.

Madge 00:39:14 Which brings me to my next part of our conversation. And that’s when partners are not on the same page, when the ones are spender and ones are saver and.

Janine 00:39:24 Financial dating 101.

Madge 00:39:26 Exactly. So. So how do you navigate when spending money and budget is always a conflict?

Janine 00:39:37 It almost goes back to to what is the vision and the values for this household. and fortunately there’s still a cultural thing. There’s still a gender thing, there’s still a patriarchal, tone that doesn’t make it such an easy thing for us to, to change. but if I were to throw that out the room just for a moment. Sure. And almost say, well, let’s take that out and put it here, right, and put it on the sidelines and say, what? What way can we start? often it’s a different value system. So we fall in love with a human, but we don’t fall in love with the value system. Yeah. Often it’s a it’s a familial how I grew up. response issue.

Janine 00:40:32 It’s a systemic systemic oppression issue. It’s a poverty mindset issue. It’s an ego issue. And so that makes it a very complicated, messy situation. And now we must all be on the same page. Yeah. And each of us have those issues. So.

Madge 00:40:50 And you feel like you’ve worked for that money like you deserve. I deserve it.

Janine 00:40:54 And it’s mine.

Madge 00:40:55 Yeah. Don’t you come and tell me what I can do with my money.

Janine 00:40:58 100%. So? So there’s this concept called for financially knowledgeable persons. Okay. Sounds like a real word.

Madge 00:41:07 Yeah. It does.

Janine 00:41:08 So if KP is basically says that each of us, male and female, are participating financially and therefore we should all be able to be spending and gaining the same assets, etc. but as mummies have less and less. Do more for the house. Yeah. So. A script, a scripted conversation could be things like what are your value systems? Compassion? Family? Giving my family the best. Me me me me me.

Janine 00:41:48 Red flag. No amount of financial dating is going to help because it’s actually not a finance problem. It’s a dating problem.

Madge 00:41:57 Okay.

Janine 00:41:57 Do you see what I’m saying? Yeah. So what’s the values? Are we sitting on the same page in terms of values, goals, desires, dreams, wishes? Yeah. What’s the vision? So even if you did a family vision board, I’ve done that many times with my own family. Even as recent as a year ago. Okay. Because we’re building businesses together. We’re in different phase of our of our, our kids relationship and ages. but it’s still a mummy thing. It’s still a it’s a still a family thing. Yeah, it’s still a partner thing. is she earning more than him? Is he earning more than her? And so what’s the ego exchange? What’s the power trip exchange? and I thought about this question still this morning because in, in my financial dating program, I speak about what are your financial values, what are your human values, what are your financial values? And then what are your parenting values? Okay.

Janine 00:42:51 And that then again starts to create a narrative.

Madge 00:42:54 Because those three can all be very different.

Janine 00:42:56 For the two of us as a as a couple.

Madge 00:42:58 Yeah. Or even for me, my parenting values and my adulting values or human being values.

Janine 00:43:05 Is different about finance.

Madge 00:43:06 Values necessarily aligned.

Janine 00:43:08 Yeah. So besides you as one human having those.

Madge 00:43:11 Two.

Janine 00:43:12 Now there’s two of us. So we’re sitting with like five different dynamics. Right. So it’s the it’s the creating a vision for us as a family, creating a vision for us as a parent body and then creating a vision for us as a couple.

Madge 00:43:26 Yeah. That’s amazing.

Janine 00:43:27 And my dreams, desires and goals have now been spilt. The milk is spilt. Yeah. And so your yours may be aligned. And if they’re misaligned, seek counsel seek help. You know don’t let it become financially ugly.

Madge 00:43:42 And you need to communicate so it doesn’t become resentful or ugly.

Janine 00:43:47 Absolutely.

Madge 00:43:48 This is the final section that each guest on moments get the same five final questions.

Madge 00:43:55 And the first one is, which part of your human experience was changed the most by becoming a mother?

Janine 00:44:03 Sure. It’s such a loaded question. if I were to choose one part, I would choose the part of my sense of legacy. Okay. My sense of empowerment Parliament, and I feel that I was born to impact people. I feel like that’s like my day job. That’s what I was put on this earth for. Okay. And so I want to I want to impact my two human beings. I call them my offspring. Okay? I want to I want to give my offspring that legacy of empowered of of empowered. And I think that’s that was changed with being a mummy. That was the piece that became about them. Yeah.

Madge 00:44:54 Okay, I love that. Looking back, what would you do differently?

Janine 00:45:00 I would have gone on financial dating for sure. Okay. You can often see how your partner will potentially be by. his family’s relationships and and he often my partner would say we we we got by with very little.

Janine 00:45:29 And so I’m okay with very little. And I would say but we deserve to to be rich. Okay. We deserve it. And it’s okay. It’s a mindset thing. So whether it’s it’s a it’s a good mindset to be okay with very little versus a wealthy mindset to want and to deserve and to sit in that space of, I deserve this. I deserve a good retirement. I deserve to have money to put my my kid through a good education. Yeah. I would have asked for help sooner. I would have, you know, it’s such a it. Couples go to the priest and the imam and the marriage counselor for, you know, counseling and classes, and you go to the prenatal classes before you have baby. But we don’t go to financial classes. We don’t do financial dating. We don’t talk about money. And so I think the help sooner. Understanding the money narrative sooner. that’s the second one. And then I think superwoman is a myth.

Madge 00:46:43 Oh, yeah. Definitely.

Janine 00:46:44 It’s she’s a.

Madge 00:46:45 Myth.

Janine 00:46:45 Yeah, she’s a she’s a character on TV. Yeah. So we don’t have to be super moms. We can just be good women and good moms.

Madge 00:46:52 Yeah, that’s the carrot. They. They try to.

Janine 00:46:56 Whoever the.

Madge 00:46:56 They are. Yeah. Yeah, we it’s probably us. We’re holding the fishing rod.

Janine 00:47:01 This way.

Madge 00:47:02 Round. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So what are you most grateful for on your mom journey?

Janine 00:47:08 The. The awakening. The awakening. The the higher vibration of that.

Madge 00:47:15 Okay. that sounds.

Janine 00:47:16 Very spiritual. Spiritual, but it is.

Madge 00:47:18 It is spiritual.

Janine 00:47:19 It is?

Madge 00:47:20 Yeah. So your kids are big. And, young adults. What are you talking to them about? Being a parent and parenting.

Janine 00:47:29 My daughter says she’s not being. She’s not going to become a parent. She’s leaving. She’s leaving it to my son. Okay. At one stage, he said he wanted five children. I don’t know, that sort of thing.

Madge 00:47:39 Good luck to him.

Janine 00:47:40 Yeah. So I’m saying to them it’s not about perfection because those kids call us adults out. And I share this with younger moms. Younger couples, those offspring will call you out on your kids when you are older. They will call you out on it, and they will say things like, why haven’t you gone for therapy? Why haven’t you done something about it? Because to them, it’s crystal clear. and so what I am telling my kids, and I’ve already installed it. I’m having many conversations. I’m having wealthy mindset conversations. I’m having the conversation about thriving and not just surviving. And I’m having the conversation that we all are human and humanness is ever evolving. And so don’t put a box on your evolution.

Madge 00:48:37 I love that so much.

Janine 00:48:38 Don’t put a box in evolution. Give yourself.

Madge 00:48:40 Permission. Still evolving? Absolutely. No matter how old you are, how far you’ve.

Janine 00:48:45 Come.

Madge 00:48:46 Yeah, yeah. Love that. And then the last question is, what is your Northstar when you make parenting decisions?

Janine 00:48:56 Their heartbeats.

Janine 00:48:58 Their heartbeats. My North star is literally envisioning their heartbeats. And yes, I also threw everything at them. But it has changed. When they got older, it was more about the support. So when they needed counseling, coaching, guidance, therapy. It was about what is your heart beat need? What is your soul’s desire? And that’s been my North Star. It’s it’s it’s finding it’s it’s finding the brave. Finding the bravery in them and helping them to live in it.

Madge 00:49:40 I love that so much. That’s beautiful. Yeah. I’m gonna steal it.

Janine 00:49:44 You may, you may, you may, you may.

Madge 00:49:47 Janine, you’re such a wealth of knowledge. And your work and your contribution is making such a big difference. And I know it will for every single person listening to this episode today. Thank you.

Janine 00:50:00 It’s been phenomenal.

Madge 00:50:01 Thank you. So if you’re sitting with a knot in your stomach when you see all the notifications of school activities and other kids party, or the school uniform is outgrown.

Madge 00:50:12 Again, Just remember there are smarter ways to go around it than drowning yourself in debt. Follow Janine’s advice and follow moments on Spotify, YouTube, or Apple Podcasts, and have some fun with us on Instagram, and we’ll catch you in the next episode. Bye! This episode of moments is brought to you by babies R Us and Toys R us. Your village through every messy, magical step of parenting from first kicks to toddler chaos. We are here with love, guidance and all the essentials you need to thrive. Because every moment matters.