Automatically Transcribed With Podsqueeze

Speaker 1 00:00:00 So you know, when you’re working from home and you have a hundred things to do, or you just need five minutes to yourself and you shove the phone in your child’s hand just to almost get rid of them. Today we’re talking about cyber security, screen time and the guilt that comes with it. The internet is not just a playground, it’s a minefield. And moms are expected to be the security guards, the tech experts, and the life savers. I’m Madge and welcome back to moment. With me today is Rachel Best. She’s the founder and CEO of FYI played Safe, a space that helps parents navigate the odyssey of screen time. And her slogan is protect them, but respect them. Welcome, Rochelle.

Speaker 2 00:01:00 Thank you much for having me and a great job you’re doing with moments.

Speaker 1 00:01:03 Thank you. So I recently heard this analogy of a parent would never put their child in the same room as a hungry lion, but they do it with technology, which is almost just as dangerous. How do you feel about that?

Speaker 2 00:01:22 Have you heard the analogy that you won’t that you won’t drop your child next to the N1 and tell them to cross it? But yet we do the same, right with technology? I think there’s two sides of the coin, right? The one side is we can’t we can’t take technology away from our children.

Speaker 2 00:01:39 They’re growing up in an environment that’s completely different to the environments that we grew up in. we will really do them. And injustice if we took away all the screens. But at the same time, we have to realize, our children are exposed. You know, they are exposed every time they are in front of a screen. But and with that comes a responsibility, right? There’s a there’s a big responsibility that comes with, putting your child with the hungry lion, the responsibility of of handing your child. Technology comes with the responsibility of knowing what you do when you do that. being able to have an open conversation with our children about what is technology, why we have technology, what the benefits are of technology. I mean, they’re going to pursue careers. I mean, your children are still small. They’re going to pursue careers one day. That doesn’t even exist today. You know, they’re not going to become maybe not doctors, lawyers, accountants, pharmacists. There’ll be a lot of other careers.

Speaker 2 00:02:49 I mean, I was speaking to one of the one of the guys who work with me. His son is studying data science. We didn’t have that. You know, when we grew up. So it’s just it’s there’s there’s a big advantage to technology. But as you say, there’s a there’s a big responsibility that comes with that. And I’m excited about it. I don’t think we can take technology away from them. I think we just need to educate, educate, educate.

Speaker 1 00:03:15 Yeah, I agree completely. So our parents didn’t have to teach us about technology, and we kind of don’t have a blueprint on how to do it. Where can parents today, modern parents go to learn more about how to teach our kids about it?

Speaker 2 00:03:34 The good thing is there’s so many resources out there, right? I mean, if you if you just jump onto Google and, and you try to find resources, your feet will be full. So the resources are out there. I always I always say to parents, you know, a couple of things.

Speaker 2 00:03:48 One is don’t be afraid to ask your children. I must say, our children can teach us about things that we don’t even know. you know, when you talk about technology and you talk about the types of things that you’re on the internet, you talk about the types of games they play. We shouldn’t be scared to just in a way, look to our children to teach us about what they do online. Right. It’s about having open conversation. It’s about what is that game that you’re playing, you know? And how do you know you’ve actually won the game and who’s playing with you? And, you know, show me how it works. Anything that you ask your child is actually a relationship builder. I feel if we look at wanting to be tech savvy, I always say, you know, my one stop shop when when it came to technology, when it came to apps, when it came to computer games, it’s always been to go to Common Sense Media. Don’t know if you know about that, but Common Sense media.org, whether it is a game, an app, a series, a movie, they do reviews of every single thing out there that’s child related.

Speaker 2 00:04:58 They write an honest review. They even give it a rating. So they would say that, for example, the age restriction on the App Store is 16 or 13 and they would do their own age restriction, you know, the recommended age. and what’s nice about it is they also have parents writing reviews about apps, about what they’ve come across in using the apps. So you constantly get a feed of almost ongoing reviews, because we know that an app today is not that app tomorrow, because there are updates, there’s new features, you know, a simple game that maybe doesn’t have a chat room today would have a chat room tomorrow. So if you constantly follow people like Common Sense Media, think you’re really in a good spot. They also have the kids right to reviews about some of these games and apps and things that they use. And it’s amazing how sometimes the parent reviews and the child reviews, the children would actually be open about what they can see, what they can find and what they believe the risk is.

Speaker 2 00:05:58 So I would say just, you know, just be open to things, you know, listen to your children, but do your own research as well.

Speaker 1 00:06:04 Okay. That’s very, very useful advice. So you just said before we’ll do them an injustice if we don’t expose them to technology. But what does a responsible screen plan for a family look like?

Speaker 2 00:06:23 So screen time is, you know, will differ from one family to the next. I mean, the questions I often get is, you know, two questions. One is when is the right time to give my child a phone? That’s the one thing. The other thing is what is an appropriate amount of screen time. But my child, who maybe doesn’t play sports, who’s a complete academic, who goes home in the afternoons. And by the way, that’s not my child. But. But who goes home in the afternoons, does her homework and study for three hours? You can’t compare the screen time for a child like that to a child who is on the go the whole time, literally from extramural to extramural to extramural.

Speaker 2 00:07:10 Gets home at 9 p.m., still has to do supper and then, you know, get sleep and do homework, you know. So my my advice always is sit down with your child and draw your weekly schedule. Okay. So Monday to Sunday, draw the weekly schedule. Put school time on there. Put sleep time on there. Because that’s the most important thing for me at the moment is our children don’t get enough sleep, but we can talk about that later. But sleep time on their put homework time in family time and then see what’s left on that and then negotiate with them. So what do you think about X number of hours or minutes. And then even break it down. You know how what do you think is appropriate for you to play games on a daily basis? And it’s amazing when you start engaging like that. They more open to it because all of a sudden they’ve been given input. You know, they gave their input and it’s not just something that’s been done to them, but something that they have a say in.

Speaker 1 00:08:15 So instead of using it as a treat or as punishment, you know, when you take it away, you kind of have a more collaborative approach to it.

Speaker 2 00:08:25 Absolutely. That’s also, you know, something like the concept of trust, the concept of trust. You know, we sometimes as parents, we also use that as a almost a punishment trap. You know, I trust you to not do anything with this phone. And then all of a sudden they stumble across something that it’s not even that they were looking for it, but now you punish them because they’ve broken your trust. Yeah. So absolutely. I think it changes the whole dynamic of the relationship. When you start to to ask for the input and to start to ask them about how things change. I would also recommend if you know if or when they do give input, revise that every so often. You know, revise it every six months. Revise it every 12 months because it creates a moment, you know, it creates a moment of education, and it creates a moment of of being able to just talk to them openly.

Speaker 1 00:09:20 Yeah. You just spoke about the trust trap, and I recently my son had my phone and he was playing a football game. And then he said something about, oh, there’s a chat group in here. And I lost my mind and I realized that it wasn’t the best reaction to it because he immediately he didn’t know he was doing something wrong. I don’t think he even sent a message in the group. He just said, oh, there’s this, group. And I immediately went into it’s adults pretending to be children and they are gonna it’s very dangerous. And then in hindsight, I thought that was probably not the best way to handle the situation. So how do we go from protecting them? And instead of terrifying them about the internet and the possible dangers of it?

Speaker 2 00:10:20 Yeah, that’s a it’s a very, very fine line. I think we have to be honest. You know, I think we when it comes to to things like chat rooms, I mean, the conversation around, you know, realizing that there is a chat room in a game that you thought you was just playing football, right? There’s always that moment of.

Speaker 2 00:10:41 But but pause. Okay. Two sides to this coin. I’ve interviewed a number of kids. on on sip the tea And a lot of them said to me, they’re really, really good friends. They’ve met online. But then it’s about how do we how do we protect them in those scenarios? How do we have the conversation with them around? So how do you know this person is who they who this person is, who he says he is or she says she is? Because in essence, we need to have the conversation on. If you look at a WhatsApp picture, right, and start there, you look at a WhatsApp picture, you look at the avatar and you go, how do you know this is what the person looks like? And then you jump on to Google and you Google a profile picture of someone else, and you put it on your profile picture and you go, but see how easy it is. Yeah. So how how do you actually know this person is who and you start educating them like that? There’s also amazing apps that, that does age changing.

Speaker 2 00:11:50 You know, and maybe play around with those apps so your child can see that if it’s someone who’s older and is just used a face changing app to make him look much younger, even some of the filters, right? Yeah. That is one of the things we need to look out for. so the one side is they really make good buddies online. They really do. But we need to be careful. One of the children, I mean, multiple children, when I, when I started talking to them and really sharing their stories of what they seen on line. there was one child who talked to me openly, and he said his parents actually asked him to talk to me about this because he was. We all talk about TikTok, right? And I’m not I’m not a TikTok fan, so I hope you’re not gonna ask me about that. But, the predecessor to TikTok was called musically and musically. I actually thought it was a very cute app. Right? So you had to lip sync and and you uploaded your videos and it was only, I think, something like 20s or 30s that you could sync.

Speaker 2 00:12:57 and this boy befriended someone on musically, so he didn’t have his own cell phone, by the way, he used mom’s iPad. and, and created this music account. His mom, after him begging her for ages, created the account for him using her email address, etc., etc. but he was careful to always close the tab and he met someone online. and after four months of having very intimate conversations with someone who you really thought was his girlfriend, you know, because she started the conversation with, wow, you’re cute and you know, you’re so handsome and then just started talking about their days. And that escalated and escalated and escalated. And it escalated into what he describes as disgusting sexual role plays.

Speaker 1 00:13:48 Oh gosh.

Speaker 2 00:13:49 That’s what happens in some of these chats. So I would say you don’t want to put the fear into them, right. Because they shouldn’t be scared. But you want to just have an open conversation about. So tell me about these people you’re talking to. You know, who do they say they are and maybe make it a game, interrogate it a little bit and you know do a couple of role plays and say, you know, how would you feel about this if eventually you realize, that, that this is what’s going on? By the way, this boy.

Speaker 2 00:14:24 After about four months, you forgot to close the tab. His mom opened her iPad. It was on this chat, and she immediately realized this was not an 11 year old girl chatting to her boy. Oh, wow. And that’s how everything came out.

Speaker 1 00:14:38 So that just put the the worst fear in my heart. But yeah, that’s why we’re having these conversation so we can prevent it from happening? So how do we explain to our children that these games and these apps are actually engineered to hook them? And how do we explain to them about addiction, even though they’re still very small?

Speaker 2 00:15:03 The way I sometimes explain it is, you know, if you if you open your phone and it’s not about hooking them in, it’s about if you when you open your phone, it’s about drawing your attention to their app first. So it’s about the design of the icon. It’s about how they give you notifications and then keeping your attention there for as long as they can. Because how do they make money? How do apps make money? Yes, a lot of them have in-app purchases, etc., etc. you even have some of these games that’s got games within games within games, because at some point in that game, they’re going to ask you to buy a bundle of coins for real money, or they’re going to ask you to buy.

Speaker 2 00:15:49 That’s how they make money, right? It’s by keeping your attention there. So it really is about about screen time again and realizing that not even us as parents have the ability really to actually when you’re in that procrastination mode, right, and you’re scrolling or you’re playing your Candy crush or you’re playing Farmville or whatever it is, you know, to be able to put the phone down after half an hour. It’s not that easy. That’s why we need screen time. And that’s also a conversation that we should have with our children. They don’t have the ability to put their own boundaries in place. I mean, if we don’t, they can’t. So that’s why we need screen time is to say, okay, there’s actually a physical boundary to help you to break that kind of barrier between you and the phone. that’s also why I believe Fern shouldn’t sleep next to the bed charging at night. Why is that? Because a notification buzzes. Or I get from the children. But my phone’s on sleep mode.

Speaker 2 00:17:01 I go, okay, but now you kind of. Even when the light goes on, or even even if it’s, you know, if you wake up to go to the bathroom.

Speaker 1 00:17:09 No. You check.

Speaker 2 00:17:09 You just check it. And then you see there’s three notifications on WhatsApp and there’s four on YouTube. And and when you see a notification on WhatsApp and you 12 years old, you immediately go back to the conversation you had with your bestie where you said, but if anything goes wrong, even at 2:00 in the morning, just send me a message because I will always be there for you.

Speaker 1 00:17:34 It’s a different kind of loyalty.

Speaker 2 00:17:36 It’s a different kind of loyalty. So now they open WhatsApp and it’s actually just some other chat group. but then they see the other notifications. And again, it’s designed to pull your attention. It’s designed to pull your attention into those apps. And, you know, at 4:00 in the morning, they’re watching cat videos on on YouTube and they haven’t slept. So so it is about describing to them that behind each one of those apps, there is a team of software engineers that sit there and really just to take your attention into their app and to keep it there.

Speaker 2 00:18:15 So it’s it’s all about boundaries and about realizing how these apps work rather than, again, you know, fear and panic and all of that paranoia.

Speaker 1 00:18:26 Yeah. So with the online activity also comes the online privacy. How do we how do we as parents know when to when when we do involved in the online activity and how do we set those boundaries with difficulty?

Speaker 2 00:18:48 It’s the short answer. It’s not easy. It’s not easy. And it’s especially not easy when they’ve grown up with ad restrictions. And then all of a sudden they’re 12 and 13 years old. Now they’ve made their first couple of mistakes online. And now you want to impose all of these filters and privacy. And you know, now it’s all of a sudden I check your phone etcetera, etcetera. So for me, you should be checking their messages. You should know what’s going on in their Instagram profiles and in TikTok and all of that. You should know. it’s not about invading their privacy. It really is about protecting them. 70% of kids who have seen pornography.

Speaker 2 00:19:42 Wasn’t looking for it. It was something that was airdropped to them, or it was a link that they clicked that took them to to a video that they weren’t supposed to see.

Speaker 1 00:19:52 Well, they see it on someone else’s phone.

Speaker 2 00:19:54 They’re seeing someone else’s phone. They. So, so giving your child 100% privacy in an online world where we have no control is like putting him in a room with her.

Speaker 1 00:20:07 You know, with all the predators out there waiting for them and taking advantage of the naivety.

Speaker 2 00:20:13 That’s exactly it. So that is one of the reasons why I created a fireplace safe, right? So I wanted to give my child some sort of privacy in an online world, but with the idea that I will know if something’s going wrong. I’m not talking about just reading messages and things like that. I’m also talking about what is she search online. You know, has she searched something that should indicate that there’s maybe a mental health issue. Has she searched something like, how do I self-harm without my parents knowing about it? How many sleeping tablets should I take to not wake up tomorrow morning? So how do you give your child access to a device that is that that is literally a streaming, and it’s an infinite amount of information in a pocket without any sort of controls.

Speaker 2 00:21:10 So I believe screen time is is a non-negotiable, whether your child is 6 or 16. There is nothing that happens on a phone at 2:00 in the morning in their rooms that has a good outcome. Nothing. So. So for me, it’s about screen time. Your child should know that after bedtime, that phone’s off, goes off, and the alarm will wake them up the next morning if they need the phone for for their alarm, I believe in parental controls. Parental controls aren’t flawless. Parental controls are really not flawless, but at least it filters out some of the bad things of the internet. Right? So if they search for, cute cat videos, they’re not going to stumble across. You can imagine what what they.

Speaker 1 00:21:58 Yeah.

Speaker 2 00:21:59 Just just the the idea of searching for it.

Speaker 1 00:22:02 My worst one is to think if what they’ll find when they search something about Barbie or baby doll or.

Speaker 2 00:22:09 I was I was at some point, when I was doing research or something else, I just wanted the latest teenage pornography stats and just searching for that.

Speaker 2 00:22:20 You can imagine my whole feed was filled with teenagers making pornography. and pornography isn’t isn’t actually even the worst thing that you can find online. So. So for me, it’s about screen time. It’s about parental controls. And it is about monitoring. Yes, your child should have some level of privacy in the online world, but you should know if there’s something that you need to look out for. Right. So I really believe in monitoring. And whether it’s you picking up your child’s phone and reading through messages, going through a TikTok profile, going through an X profile. Heaven forbid. but looking at what they can see is a good thing. Or then some of the monitoring tools. and that is why so, so far, I play it safe just briefly how it works. Is it run in the background of your child’s device and it looks at the screen. So regardless of the app that they use, it looks at the screen. And if there’s anything that happens on the screen that we believe you as a parent should know about, it just takes a screenshot of of that.

Speaker 2 00:23:24 Oh, wow. And you as the parent get that. So it’s not about having access to all their chats to all their, you know, Google searches to everything. It really is just about knowing when you should intervene to have a conversation and to and to and to have an open relationship about that.

Speaker 1 00:23:42 Yeah. Because even like those mirroring apps, that defies the purpose of screen time. My kids are still small, so they have a screen because I need to get shut down. You know, I can’t sit and watch what they watching, of course.

Speaker 2 00:23:57 But, you know, the other part of it is, if you’re going to give your child your phone quickly or your iPad, then there should be parental controls on that phone and on that iPad, you know, because they click a link here and then there’s a pop up there and they click on that. And then Bob’s your uncle. They. Yeah, 5 or 6 years old and they slept them into something where they shouldn’t be. Yeah.

Speaker 2 00:24:20 And that’s the that’s the risk of using our devices to just give to them while we need to get shit done or while we’re sitting in a restaurant having a good experience, and you just also want to have a conversation, right?

Speaker 1 00:24:34 Yeah. So you mentioned age restrictions earlier. And this is a hard one because so many people are ignoring them. And then the kids tell you, oh, but my friends are allowed to do this, or this one has been doing it for so many years. And how do we find the balance between the age restriction and what everyone else is doing, without depriving your child of being part of his school group at school? Who’s playing this game like it’s so hard to just know what to do.

Speaker 2 00:25:06 So this is a bit of an eye opener, right? Because so again, every family has its own rules. And I think that’s one thing we have to from when they can talk. We have to re-emphasize that, that whatever your friends are having, whether it’s an app or whether it’s the Nike sneakers, every family has their own rules, right? So that’s that’s something that we should emphasize from the start as restrictions on movies and series This we know is about the content in movies and series.

Speaker 2 00:25:40 So something is restricted 16 and there’s an S and a V and a L. We know it’s sex and violence and nudity. That’s why it is. Or language or whatever. That’s why we have age restrictions. Because it’s all about the content in the movie or the series. When it comes to apps, it very seldom has something to do with what’s the content in that app. So if you see something like OnlyFans and it’s rated 18, you should immediately know this. There’s some sort of sex in there. 16 more or less the same. But the where it’s very hard to judge is something like TikTok. That’s 13. Okay. So there is and a lot of apps you’ll see is is rated 13 on the app stores. Why is that? There is a law in the United States of America that says that if you’re under the age of 13 and the app developer wants to process your data in a specific way, you have to get explicit parental consent. If you over 13, that don’t have to.

Speaker 2 00:26:59 So what’s easy for them is they make the age restriction 13 they. So if you’re using it and you’re under the age of 13, it’s your problem because you’re the guilty party, not them. And it’s got nothing to do with the content of what’s in there. I mean, something like TikTok. I think it’s right at 13 at the moment. It sometimes varies. Every now and then it goes a bit up and then it goes down. It’s also dependent on country. but but if you think about something like TikTok, I interviewed one child and she said to me, well, in my four you feed on TikTok, Doc. There was some some video popped up and it said if they wanted to do pornography as a job, then they should click on the link. And it was someone recruiting for porn stars. There was someone else who said, in there for you feed. there was a video that popped up and it was in her word. She said it was a child touching herself inappropriately, and then she ended by saying it was something like child porn.

Speaker 2 00:28:06 So there’s a lot of these apps that’s restricted 13, but you don’t really know what the content is. Yeah. So that’s why I really believe that if your child uses any of those, those type of apps, you should be watching over their shoulder. You should be monitoring what they’re up to.

Speaker 1 00:28:24 Yeah, definitely. Everything you’re saying just makes my anxiety rise. I think my kids are never going to have phones which.

Speaker 2 00:28:36 Talk about deprivation earlier.

Speaker 1 00:28:37 Right? Yeah, yeah, I was just going to say. Which brings me to my next question. We’ve seen countries like New Zealand and Australia. They have recently, prohibited by law, phones under the age of 16. Do you think that’s where we are heading or how do you see that play out for South Africans?

Speaker 2 00:28:58 So I think it’s I think it’s the prohibition I think was on social media specifically under the age of 16. the question is how do they verify it?

Speaker 1 00:29:11 Yeah.

Speaker 2 00:29:12 So if I’m a child and I am 14 years old and I want to and I live in Australia and I want to create an Instagram profile, what prevents me from just checking my age two years up? Because that’s what it’s based on, right? It’s based on your your date of birth other than you actually have to upload a copy of your ID.

Speaker 2 00:29:35 I don’t know how they’re going to restrict that. I don’t think it’s a bad thing. We also have to realize that when we talk about social media, we don’t just talk about something like Instagram and Facebook and those sort of apps. We also talk about chat apps like WhatsApp, like discord. So all of those type of apps also go through as social media because they’re social apps. So we have to distinguish between between those, I mean, in the world we live in. I, I can’t imagine, I, I mean, my child was quite young when, when I was a single mom for the first time, and I gave her a phone at quite a young age, but it was literally to track where she where she is and for her to be able to phone me. So that phone was so locked down, she could do nothing with it other than phoning me, but I can’t imagine being in a position, especially in South Africa where we have kids, who has to go to a bus stop or taxi rank by themselves at a young age, and not being able to get onto WhatsApp and send mum a note of of some sorts if they’re in trouble, you know.

Speaker 2 00:30:53 So I’m not sure how that will play out in in South Africa specifically. I don’t think any child needs a social media account when it comes to things like Instagram, Facebook, TikTok, X any of those. But being able to to send your mates a WhatsApp, I don’t think that’s a problem at an appropriate age and at an appropriate time. Yeah, but there is. There is a fine line with that. A lot of schools, yeah. In South Africa started banning cell phones at schools. I think that’s a brilliant idea. I think children are now interacting again in a face to face way, because we also see that our children are losing the ability to read body language, to read facial expressions, to return a voice because you know you. It’s so easy in WhatsApp to just go low. Yeah, you’re not really laughing, but it’s just one of those one of those things. Yeah.

Speaker 1 00:31:52 So I also feel like the kids are missing out on some life experiences. Like the other day we were in a restaurant and our kids were running around and my husband was saying, but why are all these other kids so well behaved? And we looked around and I said, because all of them are on screens.

Speaker 1 00:32:12 Isn’t there a point where we say, okay, this is like a family outing, we are not going to take out the screens. We actually are going to have human conversations. And I feel like the kids are being deprived of human interaction, just like you just said. They can’t even read cues anymore.

Speaker 2 00:32:32 Absolutely. I think there’s also, there’s also something about kids do what we do and not what we.

Speaker 1 00:32:41 Say we need to.

Speaker 2 00:32:42 So if if we go to a restaurant and we’re sitting on our phones, then we can’t really tell them to not be on their phones. Right. But I completely agree with you. I also think there’s a culture of we go out for a nice family outing, but everyone’s taking the perfect Instagram picture.

Speaker 1 00:32:59 Yeah.

Speaker 2 00:32:59 You know, it really is about what ever happened to just being in the moment and enjoying this moment with your phone being being away from from. You think if it is, if you’re in a situation where your children are still the age of your children, you have such a great opportunity because you can install things like, you know, digital free days, you can install things like, you know, one weekend a month, we put our phones away.

Speaker 2 00:33:28 Parents and kids. You know, you can do a lot. Because we’ve had the advantage to learn from other people’s mistakes, right? And from from where the world is at the moment. But I completely agree with you. I mean, you go to a restaurant and you can’t start eating because everyone’s first taking pictures of the meal. Yeah. Whereas I really just want to have my food. We are.

Speaker 1 00:33:53 Young. Recently we went to see Green Day and it was it actually. And I mean, I don’t live under a rock, but I was surprised at how many people just entering the stadium entered like this. Like not looking around them, like filming themselves, entering or showing what they’re seeing. And then when the show was started, it was just screens everywhere. Like, they’re not enjoying the show. They’re not taking it in. They are filming it. They are experiencing it through a screen.

Speaker 2 00:34:27 Because if you haven’t taken the video, then you were not there.

Speaker 1 00:34:30 No photos or it didn’t happen.

Speaker 2 00:34:32 Yeah, exactly. And I think we’re missing something big. You know, and it’s not just our children.

Speaker 1 00:34:37 It’s definitely us too.

Speaker 2 00:34:39 As well, because we need to share with all the others that’s missed out. You know, we need to share that we were there. And, you know, we had these amazing seats. And yeah, it’s a culture.

Speaker 1 00:34:52 It is a culture thing. For moms like me who’s filled with fear about about screen time and what’s going on online, and we don’t know what’s going to happen in the future and how our kids are going to take to social media. Is it all in our heads, or what’s the reality of what’s actually playing out for tweens, teens and and kids who are a bit older?

Speaker 2 00:35:21 It’s it’s not in our heads. It’s real. and it’s worse than what’s in our heads. I think that the one thing that I’ve learned through talking to children is if you just ask them the questions and you ask them the questions without judgment, they want to talk to you.

Speaker 2 00:35:41 They want to tell you what’s going on. They want to tell you that they’ve seen something gruesome online. They’ve seen this car accident. And it was body parts that were lying all over and they couldn’t sleep at night. They want to tell you that, but they want to know that they’re not going to be punished for it. Because as we said before, in the large majority of instances, it’s not them looking for it. And we can’t blame the phone. We can’t go back, blame the phone around the child, take the phone away because then they’re not going to engage with you. They’re not going to tell you when things like that happen. I think the one thing that I always ask moms to do is to, you know, if your child has a phone and and they’ve been online for a bit, then at some point go and have a very simple conversation. Go ask them if they could explain to you something, and then know that there won’t be any consequences. You really just want to know about the detail.

Speaker 2 00:36:46 You’re not going to take away the phone. You’re not going to punish them. But, almost play it like you’re comparing notes with the other mums. What is the worst thing you’ve seen online and you’re going to be I think that was the one conversation I was time and time again. I was so shocked. I mean, the one boy saw his best friend committing suicide on Live Link live stream. someone else told me about seeing live videos of public decapitations. Someone else talked about things like very violent pornography. Someone else talked about someone sending them a link of a two minute video of people committing suicide, one after the next. That way hasn’t been able to sleep for years. He can’t even sleep with the lights on. So I think that’s the that’s the thing it’s about. it’s not in our heads. What we need to understand is that what they’re exposed to is a completely different world, and we need to make sure that they want to talk to us. there’s such an increase in the level of depression and anxiety in our children.

Speaker 2 00:38:02 and I can’t help to wonder about the type of information that they’re exposed to. And, I mean, you can you can watch the the war in Ukraine. You can watch on live link. You, you know, so so it’s things that they can stream that we weren’t able to. But the one thing we want to do is, is get past the fear, get past the fear, get into the understanding and to open conversation with them, because if they start talking about it, it’s less likely to have that almost looping effect in their heads. You know, where they can’t sleep, they’re rethinking their rewatching. They, you know, because they’ve actually spoken about it and you’ve helped them process it.

Speaker 1 00:38:42 Yeah. Okay. So it all boils down to having a good relationship and be approachable and communicating, communicating, communicating.

Speaker 2 00:38:53 Yes. That’s it, that’s it.

Speaker 1 00:38:56 Okay. Wow. You have given me so much to think about, and I wonder if I will be able to sleep tonight. But thank you.

Speaker 1 00:39:05 It’s been really so informative and I’m sure it’s not the end of this conversation. It needs to be ongoing, and I think parents really need to equip themselves to to know what’s out there and how to respond to it.

Speaker 2 00:39:20 And I think that’s the thing. You know, we talk about conversation, conversation and conversation. It doesn’t stop after one conversation. It’s something that that you can literally do on a weekly basis on an almost daily basis.

Speaker 1 00:39:34 Almost half.

Speaker 2 00:39:35 We have to talk about these things. And no topic is taboo. We have to talk about things like sex and porn, as if it’s the most normal and out there thing, because then our children can openly engage with us around it.

Speaker 1 00:39:51 Yeah, not freak out when you realize there’s a chatbot in a football game, because you probably never will. Tell me again about that.

Speaker 2 00:39:59 Pause for a glass of wine, then respond.

Speaker 1 00:40:02 Yeah. Good advice. So Rochelle, we’ve reached the final five, which is five questions every single guest on moments answer.

Speaker 1 00:40:12 And the first one is which part of your ex or human experience was changed the most by becoming a mother?.

Speaker 2 00:40:22 I almost want to say my DNA. Like everything’s changed for me being a mother. I think I look at some of my friends who haven’t been on this journey. I think the the level of consideration you have, the level of patience, even you have, all of that for me has changed. It’s also changed the way I look out into the world. I think it’s changed in in the way I see other people, because now I see other people through my own lens, but I also see them through my child’s lens, and I also see them through the lens. I want my child to look through, and that is sometimes three completely different lenses.

Speaker 1 00:41:07 It definitely is. Wow. So looking back, what you have done anything differently?

Speaker 2 00:41:14 things I would have done differently, I think I would have had more Very open and very honest conversations early on. I think basic things like explaining to your child that it’s hard to be a parent, it’s hard to be a mom, you know? And, also that whole notion of getting up every morning and try to be the perfect mother.

Speaker 2 00:41:40 There’s no such thing as a perfect mother. No, you shouldn’t. You shouldn’t even try to measure yourself against that. You know, I would have been so much more relaxed as a mom if I knew that that wasn’t kind of what I need to measure myself against.

Speaker 1 00:41:56 That’s very, very good advice. And I think we all need to hear that. But what are you most grateful for on your mom journey?

Speaker 2 00:42:08 It’s maybe the wrong week to answer that. most grateful for, I think, is the the things that Lisa, my daughter, actually taught me. Because being an adult in an adult world is is completely different than learning from the way they grow up and the way they look at other kids. Let me give you an example. I never quite realized, you know, we we going through a phase where, you know, we have he him she her they them. And at some point Lisa said to me and it really stuck. She said to me, mom, you know that there are kids at school where for them it’s more important that you understand what their pronouns are than it is that you know what their name is.

Speaker 2 00:43:00 And it’s moments like that that I’m grateful for. Wow. Because all of a sudden I go, wow, if my child knows something like that, then I should really step up my game.

Speaker 1 00:43:12 Yeah. It really changes your perspective to see the their little take on life live completely. Yeah. So what are you telling your own kids about? Parenting?

Speaker 2 00:43:23 It’s hard. It’s hard. I’m telling them that it’s. It’s harder for us to be parents in 2025 than it was to be a parent when my parents had had us. You know, so I am telling her that it that it’s hard, but I’m also making sure that I’m telling her that it’s rewarding and it’s satisfying. You know, it’s amazing to actually look back and see, you know, her now, living on her own in a flat in Stellenbosch, living her best life. It’s also a freaking me out. You know, when I get those live 360 messages at 3:00 in the morning to say, listen, I arrived home. Now there’s a sense of relief, but then there’s a sense of.

Speaker 1 00:44:07 Where were you?

Speaker 2 00:44:08 Where were you? But then realising that she’s 18. So now I am telling her that it’s that it’s hard. And I’m also I’m also telling her that it’s, you know, it’s important for me to to have a proper relationship with her in the way that we grow through the life stages. I mean, my relationship with her. All of a sudden, since she turned 18 was something completely different to the relationship we had no prior. So that’s. Yeah, it’s a it’s a journey.

Speaker 1 00:44:37 It is a journey. So what’s your North star when you make parenting decisions?

Speaker 2 00:44:44 Gut feel. Gut feel. Absolutely. it’s very seldom that you can’t trust your gut. I really think as a mom, you know, when something tells you something’s off and you and you go and investigate, something’s off. So my North star has always been, you know, trust your gut. don’t listen to too many other people because everyone has their own advice and their own opinions, and it may not be appropriate for you.

Speaker 2 00:45:16 Your journey and your life.

Speaker 1 00:45:18 Space sometimes blurs your vision completely. I agree 100% on the gut thing. It’s never wrong.

Speaker 2 00:45:25 It’s never wrong, it’s never wrong. And whether it’s in work, in your relationships, with your children. Trust your gut.

Speaker 1 00:45:35 Yeah, absolutely. Rachel, thanks so much for joining me today. This episode will resonate with so many people, and thank you for sharing your expertise with me.

Speaker 2 00:45:46 It’s only a pleasure and I hope I didn’t just create fear. I hope I created some sort of insight and and and a need for parents to understand their children’s world a bit better. But thank.

Speaker 1 00:45:58 You. When we engage, we take the fear away.

Speaker 2 00:46:01 Absolutely.

Speaker 1 00:46:02 Yeah. Thank you. Screen time in today’s life is unavoidable in this always on hyper connected life that we’re all living. But we need to educate ourselves, we need to keep the conversation going. Work on our relationships with our children and monitor what they are doing online. Please share this with other moms who struggle or don’t know how to navigate screen time with their kids, and subscribe and follow moments.

Speaker 1 00:46:36 Until next time. Bye!

Speaker 3 00:46:38 This episode of moments is brought to you by babies R Us and Toys R us. Your village through every messy, magical step of parenting from first kicks to toddler chaos. We are here with love, guidance and all the essentials you need to thrive. Because every moment matters.