0:00

Welcome & Why We’re Talking About Sex After Kids

So you know that feeling when you’re utterly exhausted and all you can think about is getting to bed?

You put the kids to sleep, the kitchen is clean, the lunch boxes are packed, and as you step out of the shower, ready to collapse, you hear the words.

0:16

Now don’t put all your 90s on.

Your heart sinks.

You look at him and he stands there with a twinkle in his eye and you just feel so so frustrated because you do love him with all your heart.

0:32

You are just not in the mood.

If this sounds too familiar, don’t go anywhere because today we’re talking about 6 of the kids.

I’m your host mage and this is moment.

0:58

With me today is Doctor Marlene Wasserman.

She’s the founder of the Doctor Eve brand, a clinical sexologist, a couples and sex therapists, and a trauma therapist.

Welcome online.

1:10

Speaker 2

So nice to be here with you.

1:12

Speaker 1

Man, thank you for joining.

1:13

Speaker 2

Me.

Inviting me.

1:15

Speaker 1

So what drew you to become sexologist in the first place?

1:20

Meet Dr. Eve: Sexologist, Therapist & Mom

Well, you know when I hear that story it’s like ohh my goodness, women need some help here, couples need some help here.

Right?

So I have an interesting back story to this I guess I started off my undergraduate training as a clinical social worker, musclecar Baker and arranged 2 mental health and then I did a masters in family therapy.

1:45

So I was working as a family therapist, meaning had the parents in the room and I’ll declined connections all the children there as well.

And I realised very soon into that part of my career that actually children were problematic because parents were problematic.

2:01

And so I kind of got rid of all the children and just started working with the couples.

And while I would then was working with couples, they began to talk to me about their sexuality or the lack or their loss of sexuality.

And this was importantly in terms of geopolitics, it was at the time of apartheid, so we didn’t have any kind of information around sexuality and training in this country.

2:26

Speaker 1

It was like a taboo to even say the word.

2:29

Speaker 2

Well, we didn’t have, you know, pornography, we didn’t hardly television.

And so there wasn’t any access to information or training for me.

I read all the books in the library, but there’s very little research at that point around sexuality generally.

And so then in 94 I began my training overseas and I trained in in Canada 1st.

2:49

And I came back from a training and I had the cheek I guess to walk into a radio station and I said to the manager, I want to talk about sexuality on radio.

And the timing of my career has been really wonderful in terms of favouring me in favouring the country because there was awareness then it was 94, there was awareness of HIV, AIDS and there was awareness of gender based violence.

3:17

And so there was a need for somebody to be able to educate the public.

So from 94 up until present day, I’ve been doing, that’s like 31 years, I have been doing radio, educating through media, through every single magazine locally and internationally around sexuality.

3:39

And that’s kind of how I got thrown into this world, not intentionally, but just became really passionate about people’s right to have sexual information and also to have the, you know, to have sexual pleasure.

And with that then came other more interesting topics or I guess interesting segues for me from working in intimacy and sexuality with couples and with individual people.

4:05

I became very interested in what people were doing online.

So I then did research into cyber infidelity and I wrote a book on cyber infidelity and found that I actually wasn’t equipped with the skills that I did have as a sex therapist to work with the the trauma of infidelity.

4:23

And that’s when I then decided I really needed to equip myself around trauma and immerse myself into the world of trauma training.

I trained with myself under Cork is like the leading researcher and clinician in trauma in the world, trained with Patch Ogden in sensory motor psychotherapy.

4:42

So I’ve kind of the stage of my career I’ve combined the 2.

So I call myself an intimacy trauma therapist because I still work obviously with intimacy and sexuality and relationships, but all through a trauma informed lens and using somatic practices.

4:58

There was a lot, huh?

There’s a lot.

It’s a lot, yeah.

5:03

Speaker 1

I’m so glad that you and I’m so excited to hear what you can share with us today.

5:08

Speaker 2

Yeah.

5:09

Speaker 1

So Marlene, I wanna go like back, back, back to basics.

As little girls growing up in a religious environment, we are taught that sex is bad, sex is dangerous, don’t have sex until you’re married.

5:24

So you kind of indoctrinated that there is and we we get this negative connotation to it.

So how do we go over that bridge from being taught that sex is bad too?

I love sex and I want sex and I enjoy sex.

5:40

Speaker 2

Yeah, You know, it actually breaks my heart when I hear that because I didn’t think I’ve been doing this for like 3 or 4 generations and women of your age and younger still sit with exactly the same belief system and the same taboos that exists.

5:54

Speaker 1

There’s so much, there’s so many taboos and so many.

There’s like a stigma of you can’t talk about.

6:00

Speaker 2

Sex and yet as well that with the younger generation there is a different story that is very pressurising and also what we call inhibiting around sexuality because of Instagram for example, and tick tock, tick tock, right?

So the images that they see of women are women having a fabulous time and women really enjoying their bodies and really being very sexual and women being hunters.

6:22

And that perception also is very pressurising and burdening for women.

So we’ve got almost these two narratives going on like it’s okay, ohh, you should be this very sexual person who can enjoy casual sex and enjoy hookups and love your body.

6:39

And then we’ve got the other story, which is very inhibiting, which is around sexuality is something we don’t talk about at home.

And this is across all religions and all cultures.

We still don’t talk about it.

And if we do talk about it, it’s seen in a very negative light.

6:54

And just like you say, don’t have premarital sex, just, you know, marry and stay faithful.

We call it the minor heteronormative model.

You know, you just got to be monogamous, meaning you just got to love one person your whole life.

You can only be sexually faithful with one person your whole life.

7:10

And you’ve got to put all your resources, you commit everything, your time and money just to one person.

And that’s not realistic.

People struggle a whole lot around that.

So there is a quandary still for women particularly around how I can be sexually.

7:26

How should I be?

How can I allow myself to actually enjoy the pleasure of my body?

How can I allow myself to be the sexual person?

Because there is still another element of of slut shaming.

So for women who are being sexual or enjoy being sexual, they get shamed by a partner or by other women or themselves.

7:47

So women.

7:47

Speaker 1

Labelled.

7:48

Speaker 2

They get labelled and so women, you know, shut down a lot of their own curiosity and sexuality.

Yeah, very tragic.

7:57

Speaker 1

Yeah, it is tragic.

So how do we go from not being embarrassed about wanting sex and enjoying sex and normalising talking about it and breaking down the stigma gas?

8:12

What Holds Women Back Sexually After Motherhood

How did you go about normalising it?

Well, again, I don’t use the word normal, OK?

It’s about saying what is it that I enjoy, what kind of sexuality I enjoy.

So one of the things that need to be spoken about a lot more, and I’ve done a whole lot.

8:27

I mean, I think I’m like the queen of masturbation, you know, women have to be exploring their bodies.

Women have to become familiar and comfortable in their own bodies.

Women have to be exploring their own sexuality alone.

And women do.

They just don’t talk about it.

Yeah, all women masturbate.

8:44

They just don’t talk about it.

That’s the finest way that women become orgasmic is when they are alone or with the toy and alone they find that they are able to be sexual so as to be kind of give them permission to say.

This is the way to begin your exploration around sexuality, not with a partner, but by yourself.

9:05

Because when you start being sexual teenage or young adult, and you’ve got a partner who’s of a similar age to you, this person doesn’t really know.

9:15

Speaker 1

And.

9:15

Speaker 2

How did you sexual and yeah, and especially if you you know, with the in heterosexual situation, there is a young man who hasn’t been educated.

Scooting is just not sufficient in terms of providing comprehensive sexuality education.

So they’re not aware of women’s anatomy or women’s sexuality.

9:31

And there’s a risk to talking and and I do want to talk about the risk, which is one of the factors why women don’t talk about sexuality.

We have a very high incidence of intimate partner violence.

We have a very high incidence of gender based violence in this country.

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So for a woman to say to a partner, to a male partner, especially even though female and female relationships has also high incidence of violence.

But to be able to say that she risks sometimes her life, she risks abandonment, she risks being shamed, she risks being hurt, she risks emotional abuse, torture.

10:10

So women’s stay silent and they endure, and they’re the kind of sex that is not pleasurable for them and the kind of sex that is even painful for them and don’t talk about it enough.

10:23

Speaker 1

No, that’s so sad.

10:25

Speaker 2

Yeah, I’m just because it says it all.

Yeah, cringing.

10:29

Speaker 1

Ohh yeah, painful sex that’s not the.

10:32

Speaker 2

Way it was.

Suppose this is such an important point because 33% of women have painful sex, one out of three.

I mean, is that not a rific and most of them don’t ever tell a partner and most of them don’t even tell a healthcare provider.

So this is a very real factor for women that they have discomfort or pain during sexual activity, which would be then a reason for them to say, actually, I’m not interested or have no desire.

10:59

Of course women have desire, absolutely they do, right?

But at various times, like after a baby, during pregnancy, even during chemotherapy, I mean, women may find that they have dryness or they have pain and they need to talk about it.

11:19

Speaker 3

Yeah.

11:19

Speaker 1

Yeah, so besides the gender based violence thing, do you think women don’t speak up because of shame or because of making their partner feel insecure?

11:32

Speaker 2

That could be one factor.

So in my therapy room, because that’s what I do all day, I’m a therapist.

When I assess women and men, of course, I’m always looking for what’s called the dual model.

So the scale is what is going to inhibit your sexuality and what’s going to excite you.

11:49

So we look at what’s called inhibitory factors and excitatory factors.

What are things are going to make you feel like you want to be?

Sexual inhibition factors obviously are going to be something like, well, I’m hormonally imbalanced from going through PMS or I’m pregnant or postpartum or it could be I have some kind of illness, my medication because we have very high incidence of depression and loneliness in this country, in the world.

12:16

So many, many women are put onto antidepressants and that impacts libido, drives, dries up vaginas and dries up the pleasure parts and their sexual parts, libido goes right down.

So that would be a factor or some other kind of medication or illnesses.

12:31

We, you know, assess all the time what are some of the factors that could really be interfering with your desire to be sexual.

But it always comes down to the main thing.

What do you think that is that would inhibit a woman?

12:46

It’s a relationship.

Then her relationship, her relationship, relationship.

12:50

Relationship Dynamics & Emotional Load

She may feel fabulous in her body.

She may be feeling, you know, she really has a good time.

I hear women say all the time I have a really good time on my own, you know, put on music, I lie on the rug and I’d bring out my toy and boy, I’m having a great time.

Ohh.

I’m talking to somebody else online or on video chatting with somebody and we’re having the sex.

13:09

But then I’ve turned it off and turned to my partner and no, that’s a relationship.

Factors are one of the major inhibiting factors for women’s desire.

13:20

Speaker 1

All of this is so interesting and we could keep on talking about sex in general all day long, but.

13:29

The Power of Language in Sexual Expression

Say cheese, please.

Can we not use the word sex?

Sure.

OK, and I’ll tell you why, please.

Because when you use the word sex, what comes up for everybody in the world is penetration.

13:42

Speaker 1

OK.

13:42

Speaker 2

And we want to move away from that.

So I’ll talk about sexuality.

Sexuality because 6 means for especially for women and for for men.

You know, I should say I don’t feel like sex.

What do you mean don’t feel like sex?

She means I don’t feel like penetration.

13:59

OK, but she could really do with some nice caressing or cuddling or intimate talking or face to face engagement.

Maybe she’s on my penetration.

So we really want to avoid the sex.

14:12

Speaker 1

That’s so informative.

14:14

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, it’s important for couples to recognise that 116 out would you want some snot?

And immediately the woman thinks, ohh, penetrate, ohh.

I don’t feel like if my vagina saying no, no, no, no, I don’t want that.

14:29

But maybe my neck is saying, yeah, you know, I feel like some kisses there.

14:33

Speaker 1

Yeah, yeah, well, just some cuddling.

14:36

Speaker 2

Something, yeah, rather than just nothing.

14:39

Speaker 1

Sexuality.

14:40

Speaker 2

Baby go.

14:41

Speaker 1

In general is a topic we could keep on talking about four days, but now add a family and kids to the picture.

The whole narrative around that changes and the pressure is just amplified a million times.

14:57

Why do you think kids have such a big impact on our sex lives?

15:03

How Parenting Changes Intimacy

So when we talk about inhibiting factors, that’s going to be your number one inhibiting factor.

There is such a change that occurs not only to to the woman and her body, but of course to the dynamic of the relationship, right?

15:19

So somebody who has experienced childhood sexual abuse as a child, anyone woman who has been sexually violated or raped is going to have sexual dysfunctions and sexual difficulties #1 dysfunction will be the loss of desire.

15:36

And she may never tell her partner that she actually has had some kind of sexual violation.

And so that is something that would be a huge inhibiting factor for for a woman, just so that, you know, people do know that.

15:51

So let’s say we now have your own child.

There’s going to be some triggering that occurs.

The mother part of us, the the parent part of us is going to be responding oftentimes from our own childhood, from our own perhaps injured child.

16:08

So you were somebody who didn’t have a good attachment to a secure parent, particularly to a mother.

You’re going to really do mothering in a very different way.

You may become very, what we call anxiously attached to their child, you know, really besotted with their child, hovering with their child, which we call today intensive parenting of their child.

16:29

And with that, the focusing is completely away from the relationship and from the partnership, right?

That could be the husband who is then very invasive as well or very commanding or demanding or, or or dominating around how to be parenting this child.

16:47

So all these things that come to us as children, they’re sitting our bodies and they get triggered when we then become parents ourselves because it’s a traumatic experience to have a child.

It’s a trauma, but we don’t have the skills, we don’t have any adaptive mechanism to know what to do here.

17:08

And so there is a disruption of what there was of that relationship.

And if you have any kind of a repeat, anxious attachments, disruptive attachments as a child, it’s very difficult to be able to focus on your own pleasure and on your own sexuality at that time.

17:28

Speaker 1

And besides the psychological barriers there are, obviously you can’t just have sex whenever you want.

You have to wait until they go to bed and usually.

17:37

Speaker 2

What they do, they go to bed.

Merge, of course.

Where do they go to bed?

Yeah, right.

So you have to.

17:44

Speaker 1

Really could do it on the couch.

17:46

Speaker 2

Ohh, yeah, ohh.

And the children’s cultures.

17:49

Speaker 3

Yeah.

17:50

Speaker 2

Cause the children then are in the bedroom.

Yeah, the children are in the bed or on.

I mean, I hear all these stories.

The children have got the cut in the room or mattress on the floor till they’re 10, till they’re 12.

And the parents lose their authority and they, they, their bubble, what’s called a couple bubble.

18:10

And the child invades not because the child, because the child is invited to be there.

18:15

Speaker 1

As they should be.

They should be welcome, no?

18:18

Speaker 2

Not in the bedroom.

Not in the parental bedroom.

18:22

Speaker 3

OK.

18:23

Speaker 2

Ohh goodness that touched in.

18:25

Speaker 1

My kids don’t sleep in our bedroom anymore, but they did when they were younger.

Until like a certain age, absolutely.

18:31

Speaker 2

Yeah, absolutely.

And I’m very, very pro obviously skin to skin, Yeah.

And having that attachment, but it’s teaching a child.

I mean, what are the two purposes of parenting?

The two purposes of parenting is to teach your child how to be independent and to leave you.

18:49

You prepare them to leave you.

Yeah.

You skill them up to leave you.

And the second is how to regulate themselves that when they get it distressed, when they’re crying, when they’re hurt, when they’re upset, it’s teaching them how to manage their own emotions.

19:06

So if you’re keeping them in your room all your all the time, they never learn those things.

19:12

Speaker 3

Yeah, it’s true.

19:14

Speaker 2

And your sexuality and your relationship becomes child centric.

19:18

Speaker 3

Yeah.

19:18

Speaker 2

And so where is the six rampancy then?

19:21

Speaker 1

No, because having sex in your child’s bedroom, seeing pizza rabbits or watching the action is just not the same.

19:29

Speaker 2

Exactly.

19:30

Speaker 1

Or having the baby monitor on right next to you.

It’s it kind of kills the magic.

19:36

Speaker 2

Exactly, exactly.

You know, it’s inhibiting.

That’s one of the big inhibiting factors, besides which, I mean, your body has changed and you’ve got to kind of befriend your new body and the shape of it and sexuality can feel different.

Even if it’s been A/C section, your vagina feels different.

19:52

So one has to acknowledge, you know, it’s different now my body is different and how do I befriend that and how do I still feel sexual in that body?

20:01

Speaker 3

Yeah.

20:02

Speaker 2

But it’s mostly about the connection, the relationship with the partner.

How do we still have time out together?

How do we still create this bubble around us for the child’s sake?

20:13

Speaker 1

It is from the child’s saying because I heard this quote that says good, healthy, wonderful 6 accounts for 10% of your relationship but bad sex or a lack of sex accounts did 90% of your relationship and it’s so true.

20:30

Speaker 2

Well, you know what would be bad sex?

20:33

Speaker 1

Well, maybe bad wasn’t the right word.

20:35

Speaker 2

Choice.

Yeah.

But when it’s sexual tension, a connection, right?

Yeah.

And one is resentful and one is angry, Yeah.

Then you know, what does it do to the child?

Because you’re in my therapy room, I have beautiful velvet white couch for people to sit on and I’ve got a chair which sits there, which is the children.

20:57

So those parents always know that the children are not in the room, but all the work they’re doing is to be able to get them to be able to feel safer in their relationships, that there be better parents for that child or those children.

21:11

Speaker 3

That’s amazing, yeah.

21:12

Speaker 2

Wow, that’s a focus.

21:15

Speaker 1

So I want to circle back to that story that I started with about the the exhaustion.

21:22

Exhaustion vs. Desire: The Struggle is Real

Yes, yes, real.

21:23

Speaker 1

How do moms or women in general, how do we manage a healthy sexual relationship when our libido and our energy is constantly at war?

21:35

Speaker 2

So when I talk to mums about that first, they’re like, ohh, Marlene, you just don’t understand.

It’s like, I get it, I had three, I’ve had three.

I get it.

You know, I get it.

Exhaustion.

And I see my own children now with their children, like, of course, it’s the most exhausting, demoralising time of your life, right?

21:53

Sparks of joy, but really exhausting, exhausting job.

And the solution is to put yourself first.

Put yourself as a mother first If you are not going to go for whatever makes you feel happy, passionate.

22:12

If you are in a state and you can see my body in what we call dysregulation and sympathetic nervous system and anxious all the time and you where’s the child?

What’s going on, what’s going on, what’s going on?

Then you’re going to be exhausted because you had too much adrenaline through your body.

And there’s no way that you’re going to any energy or desire to be sexual at the end of that day.

22:30

If you know you have got something that you love doing in the day that you’re going to gift yourself that.

I don’t know why I shouldn’t say gift.

You’ve got to give yourself that.

You’re nervous system will have a break for an hour in the day with its line on your bed and reading or lying on the bedroom masturbating.

22:48

I don’t get what you do.

Going out to have a coffee with a friend or by yourself or reading a book or watching a series, your nervous system will go into a school ventral vagal feeling very calm, relaxed.

And then the child receives a mother who is karma, and that mother has been the sexual part of her brain will come out because she feels more in charge of herself and calmer and more collected and everyone else is just calm.

23:18

And then her sexual part will.

Ohh I could have some of that.

23:22

Speaker 1

That’s fascinating.

23:24

Why Relaxation Matters for Libido

So the the lace we run around and the more we relax and justice Joel, basically, yeah.

We will give our libido a chance to shine and creep out of its little cave.

23:39

Speaker 2

Your relationship where it’s going to come back to that OK, if your relationship feels safe, OK as you’re just gonna go into the bathroom and masturbate, right?

Cause you do have a desire and you do feel sexual and it’s there.

23:53

Parenting with Multiple Kids = Low Desire?

Wow, so in a relationship where one partner wants more sex or sexuality than another, how do we manage that?

Especially when the kids are still young?

Ohh, you are exhausted because of work and you never got that chance to relax to get all the juices flowing.

24:13

Speaker 2

It, you know, I mean imagine even we were talking earlier about traffic.

So it’s like you’re sitting in the car.

There is a magnificent time to put on a piece of music that you know, brings you into a beautiful state of wellbeing in your body.

It’s using small things it’s been able to notice like lovely colours and your nervous system calms down, you know, rug that I’m just going to lie on for 5 minutes.

24:36

It’s not a big thing that you have to do.

Making sure that you’ve got, you know, food that you like to eat, things that you like to drink all the time.

Working with your nervous system, you are exhausted.

There is nothing more, nothing more exhausting than being a parent, especially to young children.

24:52

And the bidders get worse with the second child and a third child much worse because you’ve got more than one to take care of.

25:01

Speaker 3

No.

25:02

Speaker 2

So it’s a little little experiences that you give yourself, that you give your nervous system a break from that unbelievable burden that you’re carrying and that exhaustion, just giving less adrenaline into the body.

Just a moment because never system just will respond.

25:19

Ohh that feels nice.

25:21

Adrenaline, Stress & Their Effects on Sex

So is adrenaline the enemy of libido?

25:24

Speaker 2

Yeah, look, when you are being sexual you’ve got all that fabulous adrenaline coming through your body, which is fantastic, you know, that gets you excited and makes you feel alive and feel aroused and you feel amazing and then drop some with orgasm.

25:39

But everyday you’ve got this too much of this adrenaline going on and so you want to bring it down and it disrupts everything.

It just having children disrupts everything.

25:50

Speaker 3

Yeah.

25:51

Speaker 1

Yeah, so one of my previous guests spoke about pockets of race, exactly what you just explained.

25:58

Finding Mini Moments of Calm for Connection

There we go.

It’s like taking these little moments and just seeing it and calling it by its name.

Not just thinking this is a beautiful flower or I love this smell, or I’m just going to sit for 5 minutes before I do the school run.

26:14

You have to say and acknowledge the fact that you’re actually doing something like or relax or whatever, so.

26:21

Speaker 2

Yeah, yeah, it’s working with the body all the time, you know, getting the body and just giving the body a break.

And it’s always, I’m repeating for the benefit of the child, of the children, to have a more regulated mother is going to get the children more regulated because nervous systems Co regulate with each other.

26:40

So they get into the car and mom is Harriet and mom is, you know, 10.

So we’ve got to do this.

We’ve got and we’ve got to get you.

The child immediately tenses up as well.

If you’ve got beautiful, you know, I use a lot of lullabies with my clients.

You put in a lovely lullaby, they get into the car, they calm down, you calm.

26:59

Just quieten everything down, slow it all down.

You’ll find that you know much everybody benefits from that.

Okay, yeah.

27:08

Talking Guilt, Resentment & Sex

So how do we communicate about guilt and resentment when it comes to sexuality in a healthy relationship?

27:18

Speaker 2

Is the word healthy?

OK.

Yeah, because.

27:21

Speaker 1

I’m learning a lot today about my terminology.

27:24

Speaker 2

Exactly.

Exactly.

And it just helps me with communication and I think it just makes it more accessible and it feels more accepting, I think.

So if you think about health there, the opposite of healthy is sick.

Exactly.

27:39

So, you know, women particularly, you know, pathologize themselves.

They’ll come in on their own.

So, you know, something wrong with me or I’ve got the problem.

So my husband’s got, you know, great libidos, got very high libido or you know what’s very high libido, But for her, it feels very hard for him.

27:56

It’s just like a guy, he’s horny, fabulous, enjoy.

You know, whenever I get the guy and the the woman in the room, which is most times together, I will always say to him, don’t be embarrassed or feel ashamed of your libido.

So wonderful for you to want sexuality.

28:13

There’s always going to be a desire discrepancy in every single two people.

28:19

Speaker 1

I wonder why?

28:20

Speaker 2

Because of hormones.

28:21

Speaker 3

You know hormones.

28:21

Speaker 2

Yeah, women have got different hormones coursing through their body on a daily basis.

Men have got a much more plateaued, even testosterone level, right.

It kind of starts dropping at about age 45, but they feel, you know, there is that wonderful testosterone which keeps them theory honey, which keeps him just alert and sexually alive.

28:43

For women, everyday you cycling through a different state because your hormones are in a different state.

We don’t have all that testosterone, so there’s no way we can even match that error.

And there are many, many couples where there is the male who has lower desire and the woman has the higher desire and it creates exactly the same sense of terrible disease and terrible sadness and hurt and feeling rejected and it’s horrible.

29:08

So it’s an acknowledgement that we do have a disparity.

This is, this is how it is.

We have a disparity.

How are we going to work with it?

What can we do?

It’s about having a conversation around recognising, acknowledging we have a different desired around sexuality.

29:26

But how do we manage it?

Because her response is going to be, I don’t want any sex.

And that’s not true.

She does want to be sexual, but maybe not as often or maybe not the kind of sex that he wants.

Very unfortunately that there’s a huge, huge trend in the world today amongst young people, particularly aged 25, even 35 years old, called rap sex and rough sex has become the norm through social media with young people.

29:54

Negotiating Sexual Preferences as a Couple

And I really do urge parents who do have children who are dating from whatever age to really check in with the children because that’s become normalised.

That’s become the trend of how sexuality should be from porn and from social media engagements.

30:11

And this is really harmful sex, almost deadly.

It includes slapping.

It includes kicking, punching and mostly strangulation.

So kids are being exposed to that as being normal kind of sexuality.

30:28

So it’s about negotiating what kind of sexuality you do want to be having.

What turns you on?

What turns me on might be, she may say to him, I really like to be blindfolded or I really like to have some restraints.

And he said, I don’t be slapping.

30:43

You don’t feel comfortable and you don’t just slap me.

But maybe we could just talk about it.

So this way of negotiating those differences around frequency and also around the kind of sexuality that people want to be enjoying.

30:57

Speaker 1

So it all just boils down to communicating what you want.

31:01

Speaker 2

Well, I think that’s really, really hard.

I know it’s really hard.

So I don’t even like to use the word communication.

In my therapy room.

We talk about connecting, You know, how do we safely connect with each other?

How can I feel safe with you?

And the thing that causes, you know, the most resentment and hurt and anger and shame is infidelity.

31:21

And as I mentioned to you, people who are trying to fall pregnant, who are pregnant postpartum, they’re very high risk group for infertility to happen.

So because of the the disequilibrium that’s now occurred, you know, the equilibrium the couple ship is now absolutely it’s dismantled, no longer what it used to be.

31:45

And there is a feeling like almost like a floating in space, you know, that’s what trauma is.

This is like nothing feels the same anymore.

You feel fragmented all over.

And so it’s much easier to then reach out for what you long for, which is not the sex, it’s just the connection and to be seen and to be able to have what you had and a couple ship will hopefully have.

32:06

So infidelity creates a lot of guilt and resentment, huge amount.

And that would be a huge inhibiting factor for a woman.

32:14

Speaker 1

No.

It’s so interesting that it’s exactly that period of you say, trying to fall pregnant, pregnant and postpartum where you feel very insecure about your body and where you are in life, that that’s the time where infidelity actually spikes.

32:33

Speaker 2

Poor both, not just the male.

32:35

Speaker 1

So Marlene, when do we get beyond the point of normal tiredness?

And if that’s not the problem, what?

Something like burnout or physical problems, Where, when, when do?

How do we know when it’s normal tiredness or exhaustion and if there’s something bigger at play?

32:57

Is It Just Fatigue or Is It Burnout?

We say, imagine, know.

My eldest child is 44.

I still feel tired, you know, just never stops because they never really leave or they never.

33:04

Speaker 1

Was that that doesn’t give me any.

33:07

Speaker 2

That’s why I’m saying, you know, your job is to get them independent and skilled up and learning how to manage themselves so they will be independent.

There’s always a level of fatigue.

And I mean, you know, burnout is is a very common word that’s been used today, Bernard, actually today seen as a form of depression.

33:27

So we take it quite seriously.

It’s almost like a certain diagnostic criteria that we want to be able to tick off and see if somebody really suffering from burnout.

Having children, I repeat, is like a traumatic experience.

You know, the best protective factor for having children, which is doesn’t happen in the Western world, is having a village help raise a child.

33:50

You cannot do this on your own.

Two people cannot do it on their own.

And of course, I know that there are many, many women in this country, especially who are single.

You know, your most common family in South Africa, single women raising children on their own.

You cannot do this on your own.

34:06

You cannot.

So you need to have support, community, family to be able to help you.

34:14

Speaker 1

I am on the complete opposite side of that our both our families are in hunting and we have very little support and we had two kids in nappies when COVID and lockdown started so we were very much alone the two of us.

34:32

Luckily I’m not a single mom in in that regard but the isolation and doing it by ourselves on a very limited.

I work in the hospitality industry so on a shoestring budget, no support, it was an A complete nightmare.

34:53

I feel like we sometimes still recovering from that period of our lives.

It was definitely the worst two years of our both of our lives.

And it was supposed to be a special time with the kids still being small, but it was quite traumatic.

Yeah.

35:08

So I can’t agree more that you need that support.

Even if you pay for it, you need you.

35:13

Speaker 2

Need it.

You know, I’m just, you know, here we are in, you know, in, in a library city.

Libraries are places where mums and babies can gather.

Where you find community.

You have to go out and find a community.

You have to find a tribe to be able to support you.

35:28

Mom’s groups are so important up until any age.

You really do need that.

35:33

Speaker 1

It definitely, definitely is.

And I must say the support we did have in terms of friendships and colleagues and a few other places, like in our church community, we’ve made such.

35:47

Speaker 2

Illegal, yeah.

Churches, I mean, any religious institutions could offer that as well.

So any places where you can find that it’s just an acknowledgement manager.

I think that’s what’s important, that this is hard and there’s nothing wrong with you.

There’s nothing abnormal about you if you’re sexual.

36:03

Cause when you’re in a state of trauma and it sounds very dramatic, but this is what we call a small T trauma and it passes, of course, the sexual pleasure centres of your brain shutdown because they’re not needed.

You letting your body know I’m in survival.

36:21

So just help me survive.

Let me just get through the basics everyday.

And sex is not a basic thing for some people.

Being sexual is, you know, very comforting, very nourishing.

It can feel wonderful.

So everybody’s different around that.

36:37

There is a there’s a magnificent series that’s on right now collaborating with Disney Plus.

It’s called Dine for Sex, and it’s something I really recommend everybody should watch.

It’s very beautifully made.

It’s a series about a true story, based on a true story of Mali Kochin, who discovers at age 38, first she gets breast cancer and has all the work done.

37:02

And from that time on, your husband doesn’t touch her sexually at all. 44, she gets her terminal diagnosis and the first thing she does is she leaves her husband because she feels absolutely rejected sexually and emotionally.

And she starts on a sexual quest.

37:18

Very, very interesting how she’s dying.

And that’s her absolute focus is to be able to have the kind of sex that she’s always wanted to have.

It’s a magnificent show and I think it’s very inspiring for for women to see it as well.

37:34

You don’t have to die or have cancer before you actually no, go and get the kind of sex you want to.

37:39

Speaker 1

Have I’ll definitely check it out.

37:41

Speaker 2

Yeah.

37:42

Speaker 1

So you talk about someone with cancer and we spoke about birth vaginally or sea section earlier.

Our bodies do change so much of the kids and because of birth and nursing kids and we look, I wanted to say completely different.

38:04

We feel completely different.

We don’t look completely different.

Stretch Marks and saggy boobs.

And how do we find our confidence after going through this?

Because it’s not, unless you go for like surgeries.

38:22

But most of us don’t necessarily have the money.

How do we find our confidence in this new body?

38:29

Confidence & Body Image After Birth

Get off social media.

That’s the first thing that I would say.

There is a magnificent book that also I would recommend for all of your viewers, listeners called The Anxious Generation by Jonathan Haidt and he talks about the young generation and what the impact of social media has done to the mental health of young people.

38:51

How Social Media Warps Self-Image

And what he found with young girls specifically is the harm that was caused to them was by was called comparison.

So getting on to social media, comparing how you look with other so-called mums and mums that are they are usually influences or stars or form stars or people who are on Ozempic and have been able to modify their bodies.

39:14

And that makes us feel enormous amount of shame.

And that’s going to shutdown your sexuality.

You’ve got to get off that.

You cannot expose yourself to that fakeness.

The same as porn, you know, it’s fake.

It’s absolutely fake.

It’s not what sexuality is like at all.

39:32

So it’s about really, I mean, I run a group, I wrote a book called Pillow Book and it’s about women going through their wardrobes and saying what do I love?

What do I feel good in?

And just reading are things that you don’t enjoy that no longer fit, you know, these clothes that you’re waiting to get into?

39:52

No, no, you know, even if you’re going by like 2 outfits that you really love and you wear them everyday and you exchange them everyday, that’s how you feel good about your body.

Accepting this is what my body is, of course lifestyle factors.

Of course you don’t want to be doing any kind of alcohol or recreational drugs unless of course it’s with the healthcare provider or whatever you don’t want.

40:15

You know, you want to be exercising in terms of doing things that you love.

I don’t care if it’s like polites or if it’s swimming or whatever.

It is moving your body.

You’ve got to move your body to be able to feel good in your body.

Watching your nutrition for long term, for long term prevention of illnesses.

40:34

And that’s what makes you feel good.

You know, you feel good about your body.

I feel strong.

Not about like, you know, how do I look?

It’s about how do I feel strong.

Weight lifting is great for women, makes them really feel strong.

40:47

Speaker 1

No wow or like power poses like the goddess in yoga or yeah, even if you just stand like in a in a powerful way, it makes such a big difference to your confidence and your good posture and like facing the world.

41:03

Speaker 2

Exactly, Yeah.

41:06

Fear of Pregnancy & Sexual Avoidance

So barriers to sexuality and for me this was a huge one, is the fear of falling pregnant again?

Yeah, I remember after my second one and going through lockdown and the financial impact the kids had on us through the whole COVID period.

41:28

Yeah, I had.

I was petrified.

41:31

Speaker 2

Just noticing how you breathe backwards, I can see.

41:34

Speaker 1

I was petrified until we made sure we couldn’t have more babies.

Very.

It was a big barrier to absolutely so.

41:46

Speaker 2

It is a big barrier.

It’s one of the big inhibiting factors for women.

I will ask every woman, what kind of contraception are you on?

When a woman comes in with, you know, don’t have any desire to be sexual, That’s one of the questions that I will ask them.

And there’s always a condom.

42:01

Do you?

How’s that working out for you?

Is like, not really great fun.

What would happen if you do fall pregnant and the woman will say, ohh, no, would be terrible.

And then I said, well, OK, so maybe, you know, that needs to get sorted out because that’s one of the inhibiting factors to you to be in sexual.

There is this anticipation of not being able to trust and you know, because of lack of education.

42:23

People still use the pull out method, right?

Yeah, I’m going to, I’m going to come inside of you.

Promise.

I’m not going to come inside of you.

And they don’t realise that they’re prejudiced.

Contains millions of sperms.

Millions of sperms really work, right.

42:39

So I wouldn’t send them to the company or to the clinic.

Go and look at their sexual initiatives around contraception today.

That can be done.

Yeah.

Vasectomy ideal for a guy if he’s willing to do that.

Yeah.

But every couple has to make a decision around what would work for them.

But it is a huge inhibiting factor.

42:56

Speaker 1

I think a lot of moms experience that, and it’s nice to hear your take on it.

So you said earlier you hate using the word normal.

Yeah.

But I think when I, when I spoke to some of my girlfriends, when I told them that we were gonna shoot the video with you, they more than once said, ask Marlene what the normal amount of 6 per week is.

43:26

And I think, I think it’s unfair question to ask, but how?

How much normal?

43:34

Speaker 2

You know, there are, there is research around what the average couple depending on their health and their age and the environment is saying, ohh, you know, twice a week.

43:44

What’s “Normal” Frequency Anyway?

I don’t, I don’t look at that at all.

Not at all.

It’s the fact that people even ask that tells me that there is some kind of issue around that, that the they haven’t worked out the desire discrepancy.

One wants it more than the other one wants it and haven’t learned to negotiate around what that is.

44:03

And it all it does is puts tremendous pressure on a woman like our band dates, couples who work with me, I’m not allowed to go on dates.

Date nights are nonsense because there is this expectation.

I have to pull out, put out.

I have to pull out and have to put out.

44:20

And that’s just not though, you know, time together is going to be connecting, doing something that you love, just feeling intimate with each other.

Again, sexuality happens.

It happens.

What we do know is we define sexless marriages.

If there’s been less than three, if you have had less than three episodes of sexuality in the in a in a year, that would be like obviously a very sexist relationship.

44:44

Some couples may be happy with that.

You know, it really depends on what what you want, what you feel happy with.

If you’re feeling under pressure, that’s never going to be aggressive.

And what’s always interesting is that men would would tell you, they tell me, you know, when I say what is it that you most yearned for in your partner?

45:04

Desire for Connection Trumps Performance

And always, and this is backed up by research.

I want to see that she is in a heterosexual environment.

Huh.

Different with same sex.

I want to see that she’s having a good time.

Yeah, I want to see.

I want to feel she desires me.

45:21

So when the lights are off and she’s got half her clothing on and there’s silence and she like, just lies there and she just invites him to come on top of her and to insert.

I mean, that is so insulting to a man.

45:39

That’s really insulting.

So he has an orgasm rather didn’t masturbate.

45:44

Speaker 3

Yeah.

45:44

Speaker 2

It’s not not nice because what people enjoy is the responsiveness, which is why men watch porn, because they see these women who love and lust and sexual and they want that.

They want to feel the desire as well.

And there are many different ways that a woman can make a man feel desired and lusted after with just basic compliments, with basic touches, basic glances.

46:07

Doesn’t have to be full on sex and she anticipates 6.

Yeah just too tired was gonna take too long or he wants to go through the whole foreplay and Danny and I’m too tired to get up in the morning.

Many different ways of keeping the connection going.

46:25

Speaker 3

Yeah, yeah.

46:27

Speaker 1

So it’s it’s not just about two people having an orgasm together.

46:34

Speaker 2

It’s that’s what they want.

46:35

Speaker 1

Yeah, if that’s what both parties.

46:37

Speaker 2

Want they want quick use if they want the morning, if they’re such variety.

46:42

Speaker 1

Yeah, Yeah.

46:43

How to Rebuild Intimacy as a Team

So it’s just about being creative and finding out, finding that connection you spoke about for that works for both people and then.

46:53

Speaker 2

When there is connection algorithm that I work with is there has to be connection.

And if there’s a feeling of connection, there will be a feeling of intimacy.

And when there’s a feeling of intimacy and vulnerability and safety, sexuality will just happen.

47:09

You could have all of the other things in place first before just the sexuality will happen.

The sexuality that you both want.

47:17

Why Women Have Sex: Unpacking Motivations

It’s just an extension of feeling connected and feeling safe and wanting to express also just just you know, to be real about this woman.

I’m motivated to be sexual by different things from men.

Women’s #1 motivation, and this is based on research, is I want to please my partner.

47:38

I want to make sure that we feel connected with the so-called maintenance sex.

I’m just maintaining our relationship through being sexual.

Even if I’m not in the mood.

I know I have a good time when I’m in it and I’m just going to keep maintaining the relationship.

47:53

It’s a way of maintenance.

And I also want to have an orgasm, and more and more women are more vocal around that using sex toys.

I’m gonna bring the sex toy into the room because that will ensure that I have an orgasm and that will make me want to be sexual if I know I’m going to have an orgasm.

48:12

But the the you know, you’ve got kids.

Some people leave their door open so kids can come in and out.

Yeah, that’s not something that should happen.

48:22

Boundaries, Expectations & Communication

So, you know, it’s all about how you set boundaries, what your expectations are.

I mean, if you’re in bed and you’re together and you talking or you’re sharing something, I mean, that’s intimacy, huh?

Yeah.

When you’re feeling scene, you’re feeling hurt.

48:38

That’s kind of good enough, you know?

48:41

Speaker 1

I think feeling seen that’s that’s a big one for men and women.

It’s just feeling appreciated in what you do, especially when it when you’re a parent to see acknowledgement of all you do, but not just for the women, for the main 2.

48:59

Speaker 2

Absolutely.

Yeah, absolutely.

49:01

Speaker 1

So what are some practical steps that couples can take when they’ve lost the spark and we need to rebuild the intimacy after having kids?

49:13

Rekindling Intimacy Step-by-Step

Bye.

Bye.

Did you ever have this spark in the beginning?

You know, that’s what I would want to know.

Like what was your spark even remember what, what that was like?

Cause we married for very, very reasons.

Yeah.

Oftentimes to heal our injured parts.

49:30

So was there a spark unification?

You’re never going to get that back again.

Novelty is what the brain loves.

And now this familiarity, which is also delicious, right?

But you’re never going to get that spark back.

You shouldn’t long for it.

49:45

It’s about really sparking in different ways.

If there is safety in the relationship, feeling this person really, really what we call is responsive and is consistent and is predictable and respectful and trustworthy and committed, those are the things that we long for.

50:05

And then nervous system can relax.

And then there’s much more ability to be playful.

You know, that’s when I talk a lot about in my therapy.

What, have fun.

You wanna be playful?

I give you a tip.

How do we do that?

So I have interesting things in my therapy room.

50:22

One of them is a bore and I would get couples just throw the ball to each other and what happens?

They start laughing.

They have fun and soft playing games and they feel around.

They feel fabulous, terrible.

50:38

Speaker 3

No.

50:39

Speaker 2

Sure.

50:40

Speaker 1

Yeah, that’s very, very interesting.

Hmm.

I remember when we spoke on the phone when we were planning the episode, you said couples shouldn’t aim to get the sex life that before kids back.

50:55

The it’s not supposed to ever go back.

It’s supposed to evolve as the relationship evolves.

And that was quite significant for me because I think many people think it should go back to how it was when you were young and you had less responsibilities and more free time to it’s a on a weekend, you could do it like sleep in and then have sex or have sex in the afternoon.

51:26

And now it’s.

51:26

Speaker 2

The spontaneity.

51:27

Speaker 1

Goes the spontaneity.

I think that’s such a big one and it’s not supposed to go back to the pre kid.

51:36

Speaker 2

Nothing can go back and Hallelujah for that.

It’s about now being more creative, more curious, and if you’re safer in your relationship, you know, Sky’s the limit of things that you can talk about, that you can engage in.

You can create a very different kind of experience for yourself.

51:55

Speaker 1

Yeah, that’s.

And it’s so beautiful.

It’s so beautiful to be in a space where two people who created life together through sex can still enjoy sex in a completely different way.

Yeah.

Yeah.

52:11

So in educating our kids about sex, I think especially in the edge of the Internet and social media, like you’ve said so many times in our conversation, it’s very important for the parents to play an active role in sexual education.

52:28

Because if we don’t, they’re going to go online and they’re going to watch porn.

And like you just said, porn is not real.

It’s not the healthiest depiction of what sex or sexuality should look like.

So how do we start this conversation and what are we teaching our kids?

52:46

Amount 6 in 2025.

52:50

Speaker 2

So we talk about comprehensive sexuality education where it begins from the moment that child is born and you use the word confidence a lot.

It’s about how you touch that child, how firm your touch is, how loving your touches, how you gaze at the child, how you’re able to be face to face, skin to skin with that child.

53:13

Talking to Kids About Sex & Consent

And the child learns the joy of touch, how you relate to the child in a respectful way with boundaries.

The child learns about boundaries, consent.

Do you wanna go to that friend?

53:29

Planned for this?

Come give me a kiss.

No, I don’t feel like it.

OK.

What do you feel like?

I feel like just a hug.

OK, let’s just do a hug.

Everyday life, you teaching children enormously important principles around sexuality, around relationships, around their bodies, how you touch their bodies, how you engage with your bodies, how you talk about their bodies, how you get them to be proud of their bodies, how you teach them about people’s bodies and respect that we have, How we don’t push, how we kind things that we use in adult relationships all our lives.

54:09

Those are your basic principles and morals and boundaries that you begin to set for your child, and then you begin to use opportunities, learning opportunities when there is as they get older, depending depending on their age, they’ll start touching themselves, obviously, and that’s, you know, beautiful.

54:28

You set your boundary around that something around you know the most common thing people’s Ohh, that must feel nice due to on your own, your own privacy and when the other kids around you know, parents have to parents have to be on God to be watching what happens with other children.

54:49

You’re not intensive parenting, but you absolutely are present.

No doors shut.

Kids must be outside, not on devices, not on the on television outside playing balls. neighborhood kids.

That’s what we do.

55:04

That’s what Jonathan Hyde talks about getting the neighborhood to all play together and not get them on social media.

They are going to be exposed to social media.

You want to teach them.

You’ve got to do porn education.

When they get older, around you are going to be seen.

Images here which are not real.

55:21

You don’t want to be seen these images to talk about relationships, to talk about how mum and dad, they see, they witnessed the alert, they’re alert to danger, they need safety.

So watching the two of you interact, they learn about relationships, how you talk to them, how you engage with them, That’s how they learn and they begin to learn about their bodies and how they begin to develop and talk about the development, the participant, how beautiful this is and how wonderful this is and how sacred, whatever your messaging is, your belief system is what they need to take in there will inculcate it.

55:57

If you have a belief around no premarital sex or there’s a religious belief that you talk about it together with the system, your own values, this is something sacred.

We believe that it should only be done with one person you love, or we believe that you should be doing it, but use a condom.

56:13

So it’s messaging that you are giving, Yeah, in a positive way, appropriate ages around it and ready to be educating them around or managing social media.

Because if parents are not educating or talking like this, children are definitely going to learn from peers, which we call they become peer oriented.

56:34

Parenting in the Age of Social Media

And it’s always somebody in the peer group who has been sexually active or sexually abused and will begin to talk about sexuality.

And that is not a way for your child to learn.

56:43

Speaker 1

No, we’ve reached the end of our conversation about sexuality and now we’re moving on to the final five, which is five questions I ask every guest.

56:53

Speaker 2

OK, on.

56:54

Speaker 1

On moments, yeah.

And it’s not about the theme or the topic of the day.

It’s more about.

56:59

Speaker 2

Your kindness that you have to remind me and I really absolutely on edge.

57:04

Speaker 1

Now please don’t be.

It’s more about how your own parenting journey.

So the first one is which part of your human experience was changed the most by becoming a mother yourself?

57:20

Speaker 2

I think it was the real, and I often tell the story to my clients, that realization of being trapped.

I’ve been totally trapped.

I recall my first child sitting at the kitchen table and my husband going off at the door.

57:40

And I thought, how could anyone have the freedom to get out the door?

I’m stuck.

I’m never going to get out the door.

I’m always going out this child.

Attention.

I was so pissed off.

I’ve lost my freedom.

This is my life, right?

Somebody has the freedom to walk out the door when I want.

57:56

Couldn’t believe it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

That was like a moment.

57:59

Speaker 1

I remember feeling exactly the same way.

My daughter was born 5 months before lockdown, and I definitely felt a bit trapped.

And then we were trapped.

Yeah.

And that feeling took a while for me to ease out.

58:15

Yeah.

But thank goodness they grow up and we did get our freedom back to a certain extent.

So, Marlene, looking back, what would you have done differently?

58:29

Speaker 2

With my children.

58:31

Looking Back: Parenting Regrets & Wins

Yes.

58:34

Speaker 2

I was a single parent for most of 40 years.

So I, I would have wished that there was, I was, could be more present because I was working and I did a lot of travelling and, and learning and training and, and even though I had the, I had another husband by then.

58:58

Yeah.

There’s a part of Maine that wishes I could have been a stay at home mom.

And it’s a part of you that.

Ohh.

My goodness.

I’m so grateful for what I’ve done with my career.

Yeah, yeah.

59:10

Speaker 1

Yeah, it’s.

59:11

Speaker 2

That was the thing, I think that when I was parenting so many years ago, there was none of this knowledge, there was none of this information that was available.

So, you know, it’s just like being this full on parent working mom, single working mom and justice kind of being there.

59:28

And I’m still, you know, yeah, very present as a single working mum with him.

59:33

Speaker 1

It’s definitely women like you that laid the path for the rest of us to be able to find the balance because now.

59:41

Speaker 2

Such thing is balance.

59:43

Speaker 1

While we aim for the balance, because now we do have the technology and information on our side.

59:51

Speaker 2

Yeah, but that’s also can be very, very damaging, as I think you’ve done a show on looking at the influence of social media and how much you should be parenting.

I think that, you know, can be very, very damaging as well.

So I don’t know if there’s such an advantage to you, but this research, there’s a lot of beautiful research that we do know about today.

1:00:09

Speaker 3

Yeah.

1:00:11

Speaker 1

So what are you most grateful for on your mom journey?

1:00:14

Speaker 2

Ohh, God, for these incredible children.

And they’re.

So, you know, my focus was on education.

And, yeah, I mean, they, they hate me to say this.

I, you know, I’m incredibly proud of them.

All three children have got at least three degrees.

1:00:31

Amazing.

Yeah.

You know, they’ve done incredibly well.

They’re very educated.

Not only that, they all work in helping others.

My son is a professor of infectious diseases.

My daughter is a psychologist also working in trauma with young people.

1:00:47

And my youngest daughter works in and she’s a lawyer, she’s an NGO working in the prison system.

So they all have taken in my value of being able to care for others and give to society and really be present in that with some very proud of them.

1:01:02

Speaker 1

Yeah, I can imagine.

You must be so proud because that’s amazing.

1:01:05

Speaker 2

I know they are amazing.

1:01:07

Speaker 1

Well done so and now your kids are are all grown up and adults and they have their own or some of them have their own kids now.

But what are What did you teach them about parenting?

1:01:23

What Kids Really Need: Safety, Kindness, Connection

I taught the importance of family, that they have to all be connected and caring for each other and watching each other’s backs.

And I taught them, yeah, kindness and to be able to, you know, for me, I mean, I think it’s always about no, been educated, having purpose, having passion, being able to live, to live worthy lives, lives that they value, that they enjoy, not just, you know, do things that they don’t enjoy.

1:01:55

And mostly, you know how to have relationships that feel safe.

1:02:00

Speaker 1

That’s amazing.

I love that.

And our last question, what is your North star when you make parenting decisions?

1:02:09

Dr. Eve’s North Star for Parenting Decisions

My gut, my body.

Yeah.

Just, you know, totally, totally leaning into taking time, taking time, leaning into walking, swimming, taking my time cause that’s what I do.

1:02:26

Go cold water swimming, do a lot of walking, music.

Really getting myself very regulated and being, being able to pick up the phone and talk to them and have discussions around things that are difficult for them, for me or for them.

1:02:45

So yeah, that’s, I regulate myself to be able to be fully present with them. 2471 lives in America, one lives in London, one lives here.

So travel.

1:02:57

Speaker 3

Wow, Yeah, that’s amazing.

1:02:59

Speaker 2

But it’s that’s one say, you know, you need a village to raise kids.

Yeah, they’re far away.

No, they were all here.

But they’ve now flowers.

No.

1:03:08

Speaker 1

Wow, Marlene, thank you so, so much.

I think this episode is gonna be so valuable for many, many couples out there.

And thank you for sharing.

1:03:19

Speaker 2

Inviting me.

1:03:20

Speaker 1

It’s such a great pleasure.

So six of the kids does not necessarily have to look like it did before kids.

With a little bit of patients, communication, connection, Lube, and laughter, it can turn into something even better.

1:03:40

Until next time, bye.

This episode of Moments is brought to you by Babies-R-Us and Toys-R-Us, Your village.

Through every messy, magical step of parenting, from first kicks to toddler chaos, we’re here with love, guidance, and all the essentials you need to thrive.

1:04:01

Because every moment matters.