0:00

Speaker 1

So, you know, the moment you find out you’re pregnant, you should hug yourself very, very tightly because that person, yeah, you’re never going to see her ever again.

You’ll remember her lovingly, but she’s gone.

0:15

Have you ever seen how gold is extracted from rock?

First it’s Jack hammered out of the depths of Middle Earth.

Then it shot up a shaft.

And not a nice lift like the ones with mirrors we see on TikTok.

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No, a freaking mine shaft.

Then it’s put in a furnace where the gold loses all its form and then only the gold, beautiful pure gold, emerges.

Motherhood is no different.

0:46

First it’s the pregnancy, then the toddlers, and then you have tiny humans with 0 logic and strong personalities.

But one day he realised the dust has settled and something shifted.

1:02

When fear, shame and public humiliation has lost its power over you, you emerge stronger, bolder and unstoppable.

Someone once told me there’s nothing more powerful than a woman in her 40s, and at the time I had no idea what she was saying.

1:20

But now, with a little more life behind me, it makes so much sense.

And that transformation is what we’ll be chatting about today.

I’m your host Madge, and this is MOMENT.

1:46

Joining me today is Celeste Mayber.

Welcome Celeste.

Celeste is a registered counsellor, psychometrist and inner gram practitioner who guides transformation and getting to know yourself on a deeper level.

2:01

She creates spaces like True colour community and near leaf retreat way.

She helps people break free from the energy draining patterns and lead lives with more joy and more fulfillment.

Now, Celeste, if that’s not what we all need, I don’t know what it is.

2:20

Speaker 2

To sign me up.

2:21

Speaker 1

Yes, please can you give us a breakdown on the different anagram types and focus on the strength rather than the struggles?

2:31

Speaker 2

Yeah.

So the anagram is this framework of personality that shows us how we have developed certain patterns that helped us survive since we were children.

Okay, so type ones are also known as the perfectionists.

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They are integrity driven, dedicated, reliable people and they are driven by this need to be good people to live right.

And as parents, they are excellent at doing everything really well, whether it’s improving the school bake sale or the entire world.

3:10

They’re just really good at making things better.

Type twos are also known as the Giving Helpers.

They are warm and nurturing and compassionate humans.

They are driven by a need to be loved and to be needed, so they make themselves indispensable, great mothers.

3:33

So if you have a Type 2 parent as your class rape, they’ll make sure your teacher gets the best gift.

3:39

Speaker 1

Area.

Okay, I’ve seen it.

3:42

Speaker 2

We all know that and then type threes are known as the achievers.

They are productivity driven, goal oriented, high energy, high efficiency people and they are driven by a need to look and be successful.

4:00

So they are the queen of the colour coded calendars and they have, you know, they inspire their children and possibly the rest of us to to reach heights higher than we ever imagined.

Okay, so type fours, also known as the individualists or the creative types, they are very romantic and deeply empathic and attuned to their own emotions and the people around them.

4:31

And they have this need to be both understood but also to stand out and be unique.

And they’ll probably make great podcast guests because they’ll journal through their mom journey and they’ll write beautiful books or create beautiful stories about the inner experience of life.

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Type Fives are known as the Observers.

They are quite private and rational, analytical, very intelligent.

They’re driven by this need to know things, and they’re usually 3 Google searches ahead of any parenting dilemma.

5:13

Our type sixes are the loyalists or loyal skeptics.

They are very warm, witty, they are well prepared for anything that could go wrong and very practical.

5:28

So they’re driven by this need to think of worst case scenarios and prepare for them.

So they’re the mom who will probably have a first aid kits in her handbag.

Then we have type sevens.

So type sevens are known as the enthusiasts.

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They are high energy, playful, adventurous.

They want to experience as much as possible of life and they expose their children to a large variety of things.

They’re driven by this need to be happy and to avoid pain.

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So type savings can turn any boring thing like grocery shopping into an adventure with their kids.

So type eights are our challenges.

They are dynamic and action oriented and fierce and protective and they are driven by this need to be independent and strong and avoid vulnerability.

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And they help their children to become independent and strong contributing citizens of society.

And then lastly, we have type nines, our peacekeepers or peacemakers.

Type Nines are easy going, very likable and warm, and they are driven by this need to avoid conflict.

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So they try to instill harmony wherever they go, and they’re the ones who are able to dismantle the sibling rivalry and World War Three just before breakfast.

7:06

Speaker 1

Wow, I wish I was there.

No.

7:10

Speaker 2

Can’t wait winning some pieces.

I’m married to a nine so that.

7:13

Speaker 1

Helps.

Ohh yeah clever.

That worked outwell for.

7:16

Speaker 2

You life decisions, yeah.

7:19

Speaker 1

So I’m sure our listeners are already seeing themselves in what you’ve said, and it’s fascinating.

So by knowing our type is not about labelling ourselves, it’s about knowing ourselves.

But when are we ready to go that deep?

7:38

Speaker 2

Honestly, I think it’s just when you get tired of your own shirts.

7:42

Speaker 1

Okay, that makes complete sense.

7:45

Speaker 2

It’s when we realise that, you know, how many times do I want to make the they mistake and repeat the same cycle that you start questioning things and start thinking about different, being differently in the world.

And I think that’s when that self-awareness kicks in.

8:03

When you realise that the way I’ve been playing is not actually contributing to my life anymore.

It’s not making things better.

What needs to change?

Who do I want to be?

8:14

Speaker 1

That makes so much sense.

So by knowing your personality better, you can better guide your family as well as your career.

8:22

Speaker 2

Yes, absolutely, 100%.

8:25

Speaker 1

And by knowing your inner gram type, it can be used for personal motivation and growth.

8:31

Speaker 2

Yes, absolutely.

So your anagram type is not meant to label you and put you in a box, right?

It’s a, it’s a very dynamic system.

And your type is linked to four other types on the Enneagram symbol.

8:48

So in anagram world, we talk about your wings, the 2 numbers right next to you and your lines the 2 numbers at the end of the lines.

That’s.

8:56

Speaker 1

That’s fascinating.

8:57

Speaker 2

Yeah.

So, so you’re not just your number.

And I always encourage people to please not identify with that number.

It’s actually telling you that you’re not.

It’s telling you how you stuck.

So it gives you this map to for your personal evolution to incorporate a little bit more of those other types that you are linked to because you already have access to them, and then to start working on those aspects of yourself to get you unstuck.

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So for example, a Type 7 mom is very positive and enthusiastic and energised to do whatever looks interesting in the moment, but she may not be very good at routines, bedtime routines, lunchtime routines or structure.

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And as we know, a child needs structure to feel safe and secure.

So what the seven can do is go to borrow from the One.

There’s a line from the Seven to the one.

So the 1 is almost the polar opposite of the Seven.

Ones are very good with structure and routine and they have very high standards.

10:08

So where the seven can borrow from that is to implement some of that structure, implement some of that routine to help them to free up time to then guilt free enjoy some playtime or free time for themselves.

And the one can go to the statement again to relax a bit and not become so rigid in their standards and expectations and incorporate play into their daily routines and structures.

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So in that way we, we grow, we we get out of our own way and out of our own one perspective of doing things and incorporate a bit of the other numbers associated or linked to our number.

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And in that way, we continue to evolve as humans and as moms.

10:56

Speaker 1

That is so, so true because I’ve also noticed that with different frames or colleagues and even my children have different personalities actually inspire you to to evolve into this new side of yourself or like you said, to borrow some of those characteristics into your life and use it.

11:19

Although it doesn’t come naturally to you, it’s very helpful.

11:23

Speaker 2

Yes, yes.

And I love that framing of it because it’s not comparing yourself to someone else and feeling that you’re falling short.

It’s learning from someone else and implementing some of what you’ve learned to become a better mom.

11:41

Speaker 1

That’s amazing.

So we all tried to have this work life balance, but I think that’s the complete wrong way to go about it because a balance means it’s equal and it’s not.

So I think a a nice way to reframe it would be a work life flow, like taking everyday and every person as it comes.

12:04

Speaker 2

I love that because you can get balance, right, right?

12:07

Speaker 1

No, it’s like a tightrope and none of us are trapeze artists.

Ohh.

12:14

Speaker 2

And there’s so much attention just in that.

12:16

Speaker 1

Absolute image, yeah.

So by knowing our personalities, but also our our families and our colleagues personalities, we can definitely make this flow happen by choosing harmony over perfection.

12:32

Speaker 2

Yes, absolutely.

I think Flo being in flow, really it’s an invitation for us to become president, right?

To get out of our heads and our to do lists and tasks.

Because to be in flow.

12:49

Say something about being aware of what’s needed in this moment, what is needed of me in this moment.

And to also be aware of that inner prompt.

To be quiet enough to hear the inner nudges, sometimes subtle and sometimes not as subtle, That guides us because we don’t know what’s going to happen from the one minute to the next when we’re coming and working.

13:19

And yeah, I think being in flow is a much better goal to strive for than being in balance.

Sometimes you have your full on ambitious working days, and some days it’s just a messy bun and pajama day.

13:36

And the the wisdom to know when to flow with what’s presenting in the moment.

It’s valuable.

13:44

Speaker 1

What you just said is so so profound and I think so many moms need to hear that.

Thanks for that.

I wanna move back to the powerful women in their 40s that I mentioned earlier.

So the shift from surviving to thriving, does that come from a place of self-awareness, or is it something that would unfold naturally over time?

14:11

Speaker 2

It is probably a bit of both because life experience brings with it a lot of stuff that helps us to become more self aware.

But I like how James James Hollis describes it.

14:27

The first half of life is about getting.

It’s getting success and achievement and security and identity.

But then we move into the second-half of life and this we shift to giving, giving of our prisons and our wisdom and our our moral authentic selves to the world.

14:53

And I think a woman in her 40s, she’s handled the chaos and dealt with all the ups and downs of those first few decades.

And now she’s at a place where she’s unstoppable because she’s not trying to please everyone anymore.

15:11

She’s not finding power in being who everybody else needs it to be.

But she’s finding that power now within herself, within owning who she is.

And I think that makes us really powerful.

15:26

Speaker 1

That’s incredible.

So shame and fear and not knowing what to do next.

The situations that our kids put us in it it almost that’s almost like the key that unlocks our true potential.

15:43

That’s true.

Like almost like the gold I mentioned before, we go through this turmoil and we we emerge stronger and powerful.

But would we have been the same people if we didn’t have kids?

16:02

Speaker 2

I wonder.

I mean, there’s this person who used to say you, you can think you’re a nice person until you have children because they show you.

I mean, yeah, there’s nothing.

It’s triggering as a toddler who with the strong will or a teenager with their own opinions.

16:22

I mean they just press all the buttons.

16:24

Speaker 1

All the buttons.

16:26

Speaker 2

And we either have to grow and live up to the task, or do we get stuck and there’s a disconnect in our relationship.

16:37

Speaker 1

I agree 100% I I do believe that my kids formed me into who I am today.

They differ a lot and I think that both both of them have brought out emotions and characteristics in me that never would have emerged if I didn’t go through this journey with them.

17:02

Speaker 2

Yeah, I agree, I have the same thing.

I do think I would have been nicer.

I don’t know their children, but yeah, no, they they are our.

17:13

Speaker 1

Biggest teachers?

Absolutely.

So when something like embarrassment or fear of failure loses its power over us, we we see people actually chasing that dream or pursuing personal passions that they’ve never done before.

17:31

Is this something you see in your clients?

17:34

Speaker 2

Ohh absolutely.

I think people who lose that fear of what others will think of me, they go for it.

They make the changes, they change careers or they go back to study or they finally spend time on themselves.

17:52

And it’s it’s amazing to see how people step into their power.

And I think that’s when you truly start living, when you get to that.

18:02

Speaker 1

Point.

Yeah, like stepping into the person you were meant to be, yes.

So for a mom listening today who wants to use the Enneagram not just as a personality test, but as a guide to this transformation we’ve been unpacking today, what are her next steps?

18:21

Speaker 2

What they could do is start using the anagram as a road map, not as a label to not identify with that personality type and rather see how they can expand beyond the perspective that they default to.

18:36

And you know, we, we do that in in true colours community.

We get together once a month and I do a training about the Enneagram and the different aspects of the Enneagram because this is the depth of the ocean if you want to dig into it.

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And then we work on it together throughout the month.

And then we get together again two weeks later for sharing and exploration and question session.

I call it fireside chats where we’re just sit and talk about this and our experience of life.

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And the idea is to make the Enneagram come alive and and live with it.

Recognise your patterns, catch yourself being in your type in order to increase or self-awareness and just know when you are responding in a way that’s a default way and that’s an automated kind of autopilot way to realise that’s what I’m doing now.

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Take a moment and just pick something else, make a better choice.

And in that way you live life just a lot more intentionally.

You’re not guided by your own worms and default way of being.

You’re actually making conscious decisions about the way that you want to be in the world and the life that you want to create for yourself and your family.

19:57

Speaker 1

That makes me so excited.

I feel so inspired and I’m sure many of our listeners would be too.

Thanks so much for sharing your wisdom and your knowledge.

And your passion with us today, I’m 100% sure that many of our listeners will benefit so much from what you shared.

20:17

Thank you.

And this brings us to the final five.

It’s 5 questions that I ask every single guest on Moments.

Celeste, which part of your HX or human experience has been changed the most by being a mom?

20:32

Speaker 2

I think in terms of just knowing much triggers.

20:37

Speaker 1

OK.

20:39

Speaker 2

I’m more aware of what gets to me and what I need to do to grow because they know when to push those buttons.

20:48

Speaker 1

They definitely do mine too.

So looking back, what would you do differently?

20:55

Speaker 2

I wish I I studied the anagram earlier or at least started with my own journey and doing the work earlier because I first told other people what to do before I actually started doing it myself and I think I would have just been a more present mom if I did that.

21:11

I I am in my head a lot and I think if I if I did that differently I would have probably just been more present.

21:24

Speaker 1

Presence is definitely something that I think a lot of us struggle with because we work and we don’t have a lot of support at home.

We have to kind of wear all the hats, Yeah.

So I think it’s also important to have a lot of grace with.

21:37

Speaker 2

Yourself, yeah, self compassion and.

21:40

Speaker 1

Grace, definitely.

So what are you most grateful for in your mom journey?

21:50

Speaker 2

I am fascinated by these two humans that were not here.

21:54

Speaker 1

Before.

21:55

Speaker 2

And I’m so grateful that I get to witness this mystery unfolding right in front of my eyes.

Ohh yeah, it’s it is fascinating and I’m grateful that I can be part of that.

22:13

Speaker 1

Ohh, that’s so.

22:14

Speaker 2

Beautiful.

22:16

Speaker 1

So your kids are still in primary school, but are you talking about parenting?

And what are you telling them about parenting?

22:25

Speaker 2

We we haven’t necessarily spoken about parenting, but when my my son said the other day that he’s not going to be a parent or when we asked him why, he said because it’s hard work.

22:37

Speaker 1

While clever boy.

22:39

Speaker 2

So I think you got that message.

I remember when I went to as an old pair overseas, I went to the Netherlands the year after school because I didn’t know what I wanted to study and the the kids were such hard work.

22:55

I mean, I mean, if you want to prevent teenage pregnancies, just let them look after other people’s kids.

23:02

Speaker 1

So what is your North Star when you make parenting decisions?

23:07

Speaker 2

Hmm ohh choosing one thing I think to know how to repair well because I know that I’m not going to make the right decisions all the time.

23:24

But I’ve learned and my kids have taught me this, to apologise and to repair after making mistakes.

And when we repair, well, it actually builds the relationship more than anything else.

So and it takes the pressure off.

23:40

You don’t have to do everything right.

23:43

Speaker 1

The list.

Thank you so much for joining me today on Moments.

I think what we discussed is very significant and many people will resonate with what you told us.

23:53

Speaker 2

Thanks, Imagine, thank you so much for creating this space.

We you making us think about our journeys and share a little bit what we know.

I’m I’m looking forward to listening to all your other guests.

24:05

Speaker 1

As well.

Thanks so much.

You are stepping into your most powerful fearless era.

Embrace your strengths and your glow up and share your journey with others.

Thanks for joining us today and see you next time.

Bye.

24:21

This episode of Moments is brought to you by Babies-R-Us and Toys-R-Us, your village.

Through every messy, magical step of parenting, from first kicks to toddler chaos, we’re here with love, guidance, and all the essentials you need to thrive.

24:39

Because every moment matters.