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Madge 00:00:00 So you know how parenting has a way of unearthing every layer of who we are. Sometimes the beautiful parts and sometimes the wounds we thought we buried a very long time ago. In today’s episode, we’re diving deep into what it really means to heal your own trauma during parenting, how those unresolved experiences show up in our relationships, and the small, powerful steps we can take to break the cycle. I’m Madge and welcome to moments. My guest today is Marianne Neistat. She’s a trauma informed sexuality and relationship counsellor in Johannesburg. A certified doctor practitioner, and she helps clients manage stress, rebuild emotional safety and navigate relationship challenges. As a mom of two, she brings personal insight into the juggle of motherhood, career, and self-care. Welcome, Morrison.

Marianne Neistat 00:01:10 Thank you. Thanks for having me.

Madge 00:01:13 It’s such a big pleasure. So we’re gonna start right at the beginning with what does it look like? Or what does it mean when we say we need to heal our own trauma during parenting? What does it mean to heal your own trauma?

Marianne Neistat 00:01:29 Right.

Marianne Neistat 00:01:30 So. You got to do the work to enable the healing, which clears out the layers of habits, reactions, and ways of thinking that you grew up with, that you adapted because of short term things that have been going on. and if there is nothing to really heal in your thoughts, it’s also about critically questioning it. So I always suggest looking at just something as accessible and as cheap as journaling, in which you critically question what you learned while you were being raised. What you want to take forward. What you want us to work on. for me, that’s, you know, it’s it’s it’s doing the work.

Madge 00:02:16 Okay? Like facing your demons and and working through it so that you can become whole in order to be a better parent.

Marianne Neistat 00:02:26 Yes, you could say that. Yeah. I don’t know if we ever end up being totally whole, but we ended up being a whole lot closer to ourselves.

Madge 00:02:35 Okay, I love that. So can you give us examples of how unresolved trauma might show up in our parenting and even our relationships?

Marianne Neistat 00:02:46 So for me, we really become aware of it.

Marianne Neistat 00:02:50 Firstly, in our reactions, our triggered reactions. it might even come through in the time we were taught, and in the time we continue to teach our children or child. it shows up in that anxious nervous system that makes you listen to react instead of trying to listen to understand. So, more defensiveness. yeah. So it’s it’s reactions, really. You’re picking it up in reactions.

Madge 00:03:18 Okay. And why do we feel so guilty when we’re triggered by our children or our partners?

Marianne Neistat 00:03:28 That’s such a difficult question. Is it because we all feel the guilt? And I really sure that is a tricky one. I would say if I have to think on my feet, that we were raised to be people pleasers, that we expect judgment, we expect that someone is looking, whether it’s ourselves with the eyes and voice in our head of our appearance or someone else appear. A family member is is watching and expects better of us, right? Because you can only be disappointed if you had expectation, right? So you judge yourself because you expected better or you were taught better.

Marianne Neistat 00:04:13 and I think we all want to react better. It could be an element where we weren’t possibly not. You know, our boundaries weren’t always, respected. But I think, bottom line, really. We’re judging ourselves. We’re used to people judging us. and we’re expecting a more calm, centered, better example from ourselves. And we feel like we are not being calm, centered. And a great example at that moment. but I think there’s so many reasons. And you’re welcome to share if you know what brings you guilt in the parenting journey.

Madge 00:04:51 Oh my gosh, there’s so many things.

Marianne Neistat 00:04:54 Yeah, it’s so complicated.

Madge 00:04:57 It’s very complicated. And there’s so many different, factors that play into this. But I think the the biggest thing that brings guilt to me is the fact that I’m a working mom and I don’t always have the time to be present when my kids need me. And also, I think you said it so well. The expectations are super high, and I think social media also plays into this a bit.

Madge 00:05:28 So we want to be Pinterest perfect and we want to provide like we see other people provide and we don’t always scan. And then you feel I think it comes with comparison as well. And then you feel inadequate and you blame yourself.

Marianne Neistat 00:05:47 Comparison is huge. And build these expectations. And you want to please you want to please yourself. You want to please your husband. He’s got expectations. You want to please your family. They’ve got expectations and your comparison thing. That’s hectic, isn’t it?

Madge 00:06:03 Yeah. It’s crazy. So what’s a good starting point for someone who suspects that their reactions stem from deeper wounds, and not just from being overstimulated or stressed by work and life.

Marianne Neistat 00:06:19 So the fact that you’re even thinking about and I think I’m being reactive, wow. That’s great. That means you are actually, you know, there’s a level of consciousness to what’s going on. So sit in that for a moment. I’d say breathe deeply and go, wow, I am realizing that I am being very reactive right now.

Marianne Neistat 00:06:41 So in that you can ground, and then you can look at cheap, techniques like journaling, going in, journaling. You know what is making me reactive? Where does it stem from? querying yourself in that. but you can also look at other modalities or therapies that can, assist to uncover, like where is the past manifesting for you and how is it coming through? I mean, that’s anything from psychoanalysis to behavior theory to somatic techniques. Of course, I’m a theory practitioner. So I’m going to tell you the benefits of trauma, tension release exercises, how that can calm your nervous system so that you can be less reactive. but there is really such a vast amount of techniques, and I say that you have to find the correct combination for your personality, your income level, and your social, cultural setting. And in terms of how you want to address being this reactive. but the start is acknowledging it to yourself and with a sober mind and a grounded body, making a decision from there.

Madge 00:07:49 So how do we distinguish between normal stress and a deeper trauma response?

Marianne Neistat 00:07:57 It’s your reaction, but it gets tricky. Does the reaction you have come from the stress you are having right now? Yes it does. You’re shopping. Guys, just bring me one. I cannot deal with you right now. Where did you learn, however, that that was an acceptable response. So somewhere in the past it served you or it was acceptable, or it is seen as, it was, you know, it was how it is done. And so that’s the element that is, can be part of a trauma response. I’m giving you a really simple example. I’m giving you a more an ancestral, you know, example to say that, that you learned a behavior long before this response, which is now coming through. So they are intertwined. It is the way you’re reacting now, but your reaction today and what you deem acceptable behavior and reaction. they come from the past and they come from the present and they intertwine.

Madge 00:09:00 That’s so, so interesting because we normalize things thinking that’s how it is. But it’s actually speaking of something that we were taught or that like a coping mechanism that we taught ourselves. Very interesting. Why does mother feel so activating? And even for people without obvious past trauma, it feels it’s quite traumatic. And it’s so intense being a mom. And why do we feel this way?

Marianne Neistat 00:09:35 for me, I think we expect nothing to change. How often have you heard people say, you know, they’re preparing a room and the whole thing. There’s a lot of preparation, but they’re also going, no, I don’t think our lives will change so much. We’re just going to have a baby now. And the reality is everything changes. When you become a mom, everything changes. It is your hormones. Your brain physically changes. There is sleep deprivation. There is your physical body changes. There’s an existential crisis. There is a perfect storm of societal and cultural expectations, peer pressure, familial pressure, relationship pressure, financial pressure.

Marianne Neistat 00:10:18 And physically, you’re stressed out. That’s a lot of pressure to have to deal with. You’re not just as you were before. You’re now dealing with all this pressure, all this expectations, and you’re in pain. possibly for a while. It’s at least for the first 3 to 6 weeks, so don’t even add extra trauma on top of that. It is a time in which there is radical change, radical transformation. But we cannot transform into the parents that our children need us to be, without the radical transformation that is required to bring them into this world.

Madge 00:10:56 Yeah, that sums it up so, so well. I think I’ve heard so many people say the baby will have to just follow our routine, and it’s not going to make a big impact on our lives. And then it actually really turns everything upside down. And you never really go back to the way you lived before. Even 10 or 15 years later, you still adapt and you still find ways to make it work. And it never goes back to the time before you were a mom or before the kids were born.

Marianne Neistat 00:11:33 Your brain changed. You can’t go back. Your brain physically challenged.

Madge 00:11:37 Yeah. Someone once told me you’re not supposed to go back. That’s not the end goal is not to go back because it’s. You can’t. You physically can’t. Yeah. So how can partner support each other during these times of overload and transformation? Because we both parties develop in different ways and they transform in different ways. How do they support each other on this journey?

Marianne Neistat 00:12:06 So if we’re going to go purely into the physiology of it and say, well, if two people became parents, we’ve got to also look at the reality of PTSD and look out for each other’s symptoms of where you are struggling and support each other. So just on a purely physical note, like, PTSD or not, well, post sorry, postpartum depression is something that happens to women as well as men. It actually happens a bit more in men than it happens in women. So we need to look out for each other and expect that there’s a big behavioral shift.

Marianne Neistat 00:12:44 There’s a big shift happening in our lives. Let’s just look at each other for a moment. Be there for each other, but then between each other. Be gentle. Be kind. Small ones. Don’t expect big ones. Small ones. You know, date night may just be a blanket on the lawn and a little bit of Under the Stars picnic that actually only has biscuits and wine or whatever it is that you enjoy. seek help and support in in ways that you previously. Would that support you, but also look for new creative solutions? I always believe I believe strongly in choosing the right care providers from the beginning, from the onset of the pregnancy that supports the ecosystem you’re creating within your family. That doesn’t just aim for a healthy baby. So, so carefully, that your care providers or look at the family as a whole, all the individuals as a whole, where you fit into your greater family structure and how you’re going to make this work, and that they have a little bit of sympathy and understanding for that.

Marianne Neistat 00:13:56 because that can make this a lot more of a stressful journey or a very, very supportive journey. So you have to not only be kind, be gentle, really expect small wins from each other. but I would also say choose the right care providers, care provider from the beginning of the pregnancy that looks after the ecosystem of your family and the kind of family you’re trying to create. and the dynamics that affect you, not only a healthy baby. This is extremely important to make your as you get to the finish line. Isn’t it funny that when we when we have babies, we think that having the baby is the finish line. That’s the start. But as you get closer to the birth, that you don’t have added stress on stress on top of all the pressure you are carrying. so if you’re not going to have a midwife led care, to support your relationship and your home as you go through the change, bring in some counselling, bring in some support elements, people that can support and counsel you guys as you go into the change.

Marianne Neistat 00:15:07 stay present for each other. Stay present for each other. get grounded once a day. Just put the screens away. Hold each other accountable around you. Know, the behaviours and not overloading and not escaping too much. Because it’s going to become really nice to escape at times, especially with young children. but try also. Amidst all the array of stimulants and depressants that are out there trying to come to each other as conscious as possible and come to each other with your cups already filled as far as possible. Try not expecting each other to fill your cups because that can cause a lot of resentment.

Madge 00:15:55 Yeah, I love what you’re saying, that you should have structures in place even before the baby is born. I know when I watch a movie, especially Disney movies with princesses and they say, and they lived happily ever after. And that’s just after the wedding. No babies or, kids of any age involved. It’s like, okay, they obviously never had kids then. No, but I think those structures in place, like before we get married, we go for counselling and there are so many other periods of our lives where we do get the help and support we need, but for some reason we don’t do it before babies are born.

Madge 00:16:35 And that is such good advice. I wish I did it before my kids were born.

Marianne Neistat 00:16:40 Yeah, that’s one thing I’ve been I’ve been really driving of life is having enough pre-marital, time to to discuss, and mediate and plan certain things. and like you say, right before your baby comes, really, really planning and preparing as a family unit for that.

Madge 00:17:00 Yeah. It makes so much sense. So marries on. What if one partner does the healing and works on themselves and face their own demons and the other one doesn’t, and it feels like the one is transforming and the other one is just still sitting in it.

Marianne Neistat 00:17:18 So you will experience a gap. You will feel like there’s a gap, right? but by the same token, one person it when we do relations, when I do relationship therapy and what I’ve learned from my seniors is you actually only need one partner to shift. You don’t need both partners to shift. Just one needs to shift for there to be a new, dimension that they go into.

Marianne Neistat 00:17:43 so there’s already growth in the relationship if even only one person is growing or adapting or changing. but you need to ideally both be doing some growing. Right? the thing is, what I’m saying is, keep talking, keep accepting influence from each other. Keep building your connection. Just keep accepting influence. Keep talking. And try to do your own work. Each of the partners try do your own work. If it is infections that’s affecting you. If it is depression that’s affecting you, if it is, struggling with the balance between work and being home and finding new routines, finding new ways to cope with that. So. So be creative. But don’t count your chickens. Don’t be like, well, I’ve done all this growth and this one’s done nothing at all. the human brain is immensely, immensely like there’s a lot of plasticity, and people don’t always focus on the same growth at the same time and grow exactly at the same time. Just like human babies do not grow in a growth, couples do not grow at the same time, so don’t expect to both have the same exponential growth at exactly the same time.

Marianne Neistat 00:18:59 Keep connecting. Keep existing infants from each other. Keep talking.

Madge 00:19:03 That’s very good advice. So how do you guide couples through the grief of this old life that we mentioned before, and help them reconnect in this new chapter? Because there is a lot of reconnecting and getting to know this new version of your partner post-baby, or even as the kids grow.

Marianne Neistat 00:19:27 So each couple is so individual, right? we have to tailor when it comes to this to to the individual couple. But I would start my big thing would be three words. Befriend your reality. And then all the sentences that go after that. So befriend your reality. I like to look at all the things that a couple would encounter to prepare them for the different scenarios. because the majority of the birth trauma that I have seen came down to basically someone thinking, I just didn’t think it would happen, and I didn’t think it would happen to me, even though I knew that I was there was a statistically significant chance that it would. I just didn’t think it would be me.

Marianne Neistat 00:20:17 And so I didn’t prepare for it. and that, you know, you honestly need the moment you’re pregnant, you need to start preparing for a number of different scenarios, even the ones that you think completely suck and you hope that they will never happen. But you need to prepare in the event of this. Or in the event of that. What is the plan? What do we do? What do we think we need to be emotionally and physically prepared for? Should it go in this direction? because stress comes at its worst when we don’t befriend our reality. So if you go and you say, I’m like, I’m like, it’s terrible. I’m like, for this, I’m like, for that you’re not preferring your reality versus going, I am now light. So how am I going to deal with this more effectively? Right. The ones put you into tears and anxiety and stress and the other one goes, right. What are my what is my plan? So journal, look at different scenarios.

Marianne Neistat 00:21:19 Do mind maps. Do little bubble maps around. If this happens, this is my plan. If this happens, This is my plan. So you can be a little bit more prepared should you have certain scenarios come up, what are you going to do about it? so you can have healthy coping strategies through the dark days and the sleepless right, and all the things that come up. but yeah, each couple is different. Each couple needs different things in a toolbox and have different cultural and societal things playing into their individual relationships. So we tailor it.

Madge 00:21:53 What you’re saying is so interesting, Madisen, because I feel like not enough is being said about exactly what you just told us. And I think this episode is going to bring so much value to new mothers, as well as moms who are dealing with their own healing. So this brings us to the final five, which is five questions every guest on moments answer. And the first one is which part of your human experience or as we call it, the on moments was changed the most by becoming a mom.

Marianne Neistat 00:22:29 Oh, it’s the pure, grounded joy and love. I didn’t have that in my life until I had children. I didn’t have that pure joy, pure love. And that’s what I gained by having children.

Madge 00:22:45 That’s amazing. So looking back, what would you do differently?

Marianne Neistat 00:22:51 So each marriage is different, right? And that’s the beauty of it. We’ve got to say each marriage is different. What works for your marriage doesn’t work for mine. But I would have allowed my husband more sleep after the first baby came. I cannot afford a Ferrari for him, but I would have given him more sleep because sleep is the cornerstone of his mental health. And I would have done more sleep for you.

Madge 00:23:15 That is so interesting because most moms say they would have done less in the middle of the night and let the husband do more.

Marianne Neistat 00:23:25 So each marriage.

Madge 00:23:26 Is.

Marianne Neistat 00:23:26 Different.

Madge 00:23:30 So what are you most grateful for on your mom journey?

Marianne Neistat 00:23:34 So I’ve made incredible people. It’s changed my world, the kind of people I’ve met.

Marianne Neistat 00:23:40 I completely changed my career as a result. And I most, most importantly, above everything else. The snuggles and the human love.

Madge 00:23:52 Amazing. So what are you telling your own kids about parenting?

Marianne Neistat 00:23:58 That’s a hard question.

Madge 00:24:05 Yeah.

Marianne Neistat 00:24:06 So it’s really easy at this point, right? It’s really easy because there’s all I have to tell you is, you know, there is a bigger family, so don’t worry. You’ll be okay. Someone will always be there to look after you. You’ll have more than one side likes to go and that it’s really hard to not get it wrong sometimes. So sometimes I’m going to apologize and say, oops, I got that wrong. I’ll try harder next time.

Madge 00:24:31 Okay? Yeah, that’s very good. So what is your North Star when you make parenting decisions?

Marianne Neistat 00:24:39 Research my midwife and my mom.

Madge 00:24:42 Okay. Good answer. Madison, thanks so much for joining me today. And I really think this is going to resonate and help so many moms out there.

Marianne Neistat 00:24:53 Thank you so much for the opportunity.

Marianne Neistat 00:24:56 And you’re welcome in London anytime for a cup of coffee.

Madge 00:24:59 Yes. If I’m ever in Jo’burg, I’ll call you up. Parenting isn’t always about perfection. It’s about awareness, intention, and the courage to do the work even when it’s hard. I hope today’s conversation with Madison has left you feeling inspired, and maybe even a little more equipped to face the big feelings that come with raising tiny humans. Every step you take toward healing is also a step to becoming the parent you want to be. Remember to subscribe and thank you for joining us. Until next time, goodbye. This episode of moments is brought to you by babies R Us and Toys R us. Your village. Through every messy, magical step of parenting from first kicks to toddler chaos.

Multiple Speakers 00:25:50 We are here with love, guidance and all the essentials you need to thrive. Because every moment matters.